#060: Dina Elsaid Became a Doctor for Everyone Else… Then Remembered She Was an Artist

Meet Dina: From Egypt To DFW

I wasn't able to become like what I want. I had to do like what was expected from me. So I'm a physician in my home country. So I'm an ophthalmologist and I doctor. And I have been to medical school and graduated with a bachelor's degree and did my internship there and everything. So kind of like art was always in the very, very background.

You are listening to Dwight and joined by Maddox. And today our special guest is Dina Elseid. Welcome, Dina. Why don't you tell everyone a little bit about who you are and what you're about?

Hey Dwight and Maddox. Hello. So uh I'm an artist uh based here in uh DFW in Dennis, and I'm Egyptian born and raised, but I've been living in the US for almost 14 years now. Uh uh almost five of them here in Dennis. Uh I'm a mom of two little kiddos and uh three uh little fur babies. So uh so yeah, and I basically do uh like visual art. Like I paint uh mostly in watercolor. I do a lot of drawing. Uh uh most of my art is very like uh figurative. Um I can't say it's a lot spiritual, but it's uh it's very much influenced by my background coming from Egypt, uh regardless if it's like ancient Egyptian or other uh other Egyptian uh heritage uh uh in there. So yeah, that's basically it.

Wonderful. I I've uh had the chance to see some of your work, some of it very figurative, some of it very colorful and playful. And I can appreciate the the influence, like you you really lean into some of the fun the fun tropes about what it is to be in Texas, you know, some cowboy motifs, you know, some fun play with boots and that kind of thing. Um tell me a little bit about how you how you got into art, like what what were the very beginnings?

So uh it's it's a bit like uh a bit much. So I've been always like uh in love with uh sketching and drawing all the time since I was since I can remember. Like I I always doodled in uh my notebooks uh at school, uh in the classroom, and uh and all of that. But I um I wasn't able to become like what I want. I uh had to do like what was expected from me. So I'm a physician in my home country. So I'm an ophthalmologist and eye doctor, and I uh have been to medical school and graduated with a bachelor's degree and did my internship there and everything. So kind of like art was always uh in the very, very background. Uh until I moved here to the US, uh, I was lucky to uh I remember like moving with my ex-husband to New Orleans, and I was lucky to find this uh uh place there, it's called Academy of Fine Arts, and I started like taking uh classes, but it's uh like very uh very uh casual go when you want kind of thing. And I started getting back into like not I've always doodled, but learning more about like uh painting, like using different mediums. Uh so yeah, so and since then I've kind of like uh been making art, but I started showing my art uh probably in the past like four years. I was always making art, but never really show showing up. Like it was always like very intimate, uh like just self-expression stuff like that. So yeah.

That's amazing. I I can't help but kind of see how even with the what you were what you chose in medicine, how it kind of whispered, how it kind of pointed in that direction, like ophthalmology. Like there was definitely I think it's it definitely informs visual uh mediums, because I mean you're uh talking about how it is that you perceive what um what it is that we see on the outside world, that's amazing.

Precision, Watercolor, And Letting Go

It's very detail-oriented too, which is something that I uh I even like do a lot in my work. That's why with the geometric work and all of these things, like the like being very uh precise with everything having to like yeah, and that's why I kind of like try my best to use watercolors to keep myself like in check of like not not to be in control all the time because you cannot really control watercolor, even if you do, you're still like under the pressure of like if I make a mistake, it's not fixed, like you can't really fix it. So you have to let go, you have to let go to the process. Yeah.

I love that. Yeah. You said something a minute ago that piqued my curiosity. We certainly have talked to a percentage of people who speak of the conversation about I did what I was expected to do. And we've had guests on the podcast from a variety of different cultures. And some cultures that's very strong in, like you just do what you're told. And then other cultures, there's a what we want you to do. I mean, you know, here in the United States, there's a few parents that literally force your hand, but it's not quite as I know in some countries if you don't become you know what they want you to be, your whole family's disgraced. And I I'm interested in, because I know our listeners are interested in this because it's so prevalent. You you made like a very abrupt pivot. You stepped away from the medical profession, left your family, left your country of origin, moved to the United States, and became an artist. And that's a big friggin' deal. I'd love to know a little bit more about who you had to become to step away from all of those expectations.

It's this definitely a work in progress because I've been like the the past few years, like unlearning a lot of things and uh like you know, all the negative self-talk and everything, like going through this whole process of like uh uh because especially that I haven't uh uh been to an art school or anything, so there's definitely always the negative self-talk of like, oh, I'm am I really an artist? Am I just like doing it for like what am I doing here? Uh like uh for example, a few people asked me if I would like teach them, and I'm like, am I good enough to teach them? Like, you know, all of this self-talk.

Okay, the the answer to that question is unequivocally. Yeah, inequivocally, I can't say that word. Yes. You you you have you absolutely can teach.

Breaking Expectations And Belonging

Thank you. But um, but yeah, it's it definitely uh uh interestingly, like I come from an Egyptian, uh like I like Egyptian family, uh Middle Eastern family, but um it's not uh uh the stereotype of a woman coming from the Middle East here. It's different than how I grew up. I'm I was I was like I'm raised in a pretty much like uh we're not not a conservative family at all, but when it came to education, uh my family is like they're all physicians. So being a physician is like you have to be, you have to be since I was like very little, and I cannot even dream about something else. Like you're you're a doctor, uh you have to be doing good in school because you're and I did good in school. Uh fortunately and unfortunately, I'm smart, so I got the grades, and I ended up going to medical school. Uh and uh let's say that I realized like the the way I was doing things, I definitely was a huge people pleaser because I just wanted to keep the peace in some way. So I went into medical school, I finished uh the whole thing. I I'm good at studying in general, so I finished the whole thing. And then for me, like at that time, getting married and moving here with my ex-husband to the US was kind of like freeing in some way, because I'm finally away from uh especially like my parents, especially my mom, like uh from uh being um like from having to do this because I was already so miserable. I was good at it because I can be good at anything, but I was I was like, where is this going? Like I don't I don't know. And I really at that time too, I really needed to leave the house. Like uh I did make a few bad decisions uh in order to to kind of like be able to escape in the in the most decent way possible. Like so yeah. Um so yeah, so when I came here to the US, uh I was like, I'm I'm not I'm I'm already here and uh and nobody can tell me to do something that I'm not comfortable with, and I'm I can let me just start. But the thing is, I realized like, oh, I'm a married woman and now I'm having a baby and then another baby, so yeah, so it's like life. So yeah.

Yeah.

Wow, it's a lot of life happening.

There's there's something else. Let me say one more thing, Dwight, and then I'll pass it over to you. What one other thing that comes to mind when you talked about not having an art degree. Now, I don't have any hard statistics on this, but we have had these conversations with a bunch of people, and it's a cross-section of just creatives. It's the macro, the micro, or however you say that. And I can tell you that fewer of them have art degrees than don't. You are in the majority. I'm in the majority. Dwight's in the majority. We're all three artists, and ne none of us have any kind of art degree. Now, Dwight has degrees, but they don't have anything to do with art. Nothing. And when you look back at some of the greats, most of those people didn't have art degrees. I I would, I would, this is my opinion, I would never base whether or not I'm a viable artist on whether or not I've got an art degree.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. And I like, even though I was I wasn't like happy with being in medical school, but looking back at it, like it influenced a lot of things that uh I do in my art too. Like doing the figurative art, a lot of it, because I have always been amazed with the human human like the human body. Like I don't, I I barely uh I barely sketch animals, for example, even though I love my cats. I love them very much, but I don't uh but it's just the whole idea of this vessel that is fragile, but at the same time is like amazing. Like it makes us do all of these stuff, but at the same time, like it can get a disease and just like break down.

Our bodies are living, breathing miracles, aren't they?

Yeah, exactly. Like it's just amazing. So just like like all the gestures and all the movements um that you can get from it, and and also like uh like the different uh types and shapes and uh and uh ages, like it's it's it's amazing.

So yeah, and uh that's terrific. Yeah, I uh all I was going to do is just kind of summarize the arc of your life in uh what you'd related to us. And it sounds like as you were growing up, when you were in your your home of origin, you know, following the path to be a doctor, you're playing Simon says. And then uh it was kind of like when you got married and moved to the States, you were sort of on the path to losing a musical chair because uh you know, all of a sudden you're you're kind of doing something a little different from everyone else. And y it sounds like in this uh latest unfolding where you're you're exploring new things, you're really uh really inserting yourself in in art circles and showing up, like fully showing up. You are uh breaking the mold and finding your own path. And uh I'm I'm really proud of how like in in all the ways that that we show up, we go to events and we invariably will run into you. And um I'm really happy with how I mean you've always supported us with our events as well. You know, um it was uh always great to see you there, but you you kind of lead a life that's a model for anyone else. It's not about being ready because it if you wait until you're ready to go and have your shot, you're gonna be waiting a long time.

Yeah.

And I I just want to call out the amount of courage that it must have taken for you to step away from your family's desires and to to choose to be the captain of your own ship and lead your own life. I we we talked to so many people, I know that takes a tremendous amount of courage. And your story sets an example and gives others permission to do that. So kudos, kudos, kudos.

No Art Degree, Strong Vision

It it's definitely not easy because uh like everybody wants to feel like their belongings, especially the the like the their primary like family kind of thing. But um I don't know, maybe maybe because of my age or just because of what I've been through and all the changes and moving from one place to another. Uh you can you can find your own people uh wherever you go. Uh just get out out there, don't isolate and just like be get out there. Get out there. Sometimes it's definitely not easy, especially with the two little kiddos. Like uh they're they're not too little, but when when I moved here, they were still like uh pretty little. Now they're 11 and 8. But um uh like yeah, it's there are people around. Just just get out there. So yeah.

There's there's a lot to be said for finding your people. I searched for my people my whole life and at times found little groups that, but nothing like I found two and a half years ago when we stumbled into the creatives community. It was like, oh my god, I have come home. And now almost everybody that we socialize with or are are in our lives in any regard are creatives in some form or fashion. Like we're we're very engulfed in the creatives community.

Yeah, yeah. Yeah, I love the creatives communities and the different ones too, because uh like the ones uh in in in DFW, it's so interesting, like uh how it is different from uh Dallas to Frisco to like Frisco in Plano kind of so, but like it's uh I love the the diversity within the community too.

Like, yeah, how yeah, it's uh yes, we were in a very diverse room last night when we went to the visual arts of Frisco Guild. It was all ages, all skin colors, uh you know, you name it. Yeah, all all um gender associations and sexual orientations, and we love that. I think that's what makes the creative community really special is we are so diverse and yet we play so well together.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Well, I I know that you have engaged in some pretty ambitious projects. Um I one of the places where we got to see you last year was um you were showing at the other art fair. And um I I love the the beautiful things that you you put out on Instagram. Um and I love the the beautiful portfolio of work that you uh that you have out there. Um where where does that drive that um where does all of that output live because you do so much?

The Human Body As Muse

Uh I can't say that I've been doing much link even but like You got a library at work. Yeah, but I I I don't know. I always have like a lot of like flight of creative ideas in my mind, and sometimes I randomly sometimes write them down. Like I remember uh a couple of years ago, I was with a friend of mine uh at Italie in uh Dallas on the dance floor, and I just got a notebook out because I had like this image in my head, and then did I paint it eventually? I didn't, but I still have it somewhere in my notes, like there. But it's it's just like and I know that eventually I'll come back to it. Like uh there's always this this creative idea that comes, and I just like I will come back to it. Um uh so yeah, it's uh just inspired by things around me or sometimes like certain situations. I even I remember uh last month I was in Houston and I was uh uh talking with a friend of mine uh there about like uh uh childhood stuff and things like that, and uh what I what uh uh we go through uh like as women and things. Like that, and he was like, Oh, you should try and do this into an art thing. And I'm like, How? How like and now since then I've been kind of like thinking about it, like how can this be expressed into especially because and I think this is the thing uh when I say that I don't have an art degree because the the ideas like you can have plenty of ideas in your mind, but it's how to execute them. This is the tricky part. Uh, because sometimes I would have the idea, but I'm really struggling to execute it or express it in a way that that is that is not just for the other to see and understand, because everybody can understand the art that they that they see and whatever how it speaks to them, but in a way that when I myself look at it, I can I can see the vision in it. Like because like what like it would make no sense if I don't see it in there.

Like I I think you're describing an opportunity for collaboration. You know, when you're saying I have this idea, he he get he's planted that seed. Yes, you've got this great idea, you're not sure how to execute it, but if you pull some other women artists in to collaborate on the project together, you would brainstorm and you'd figure it out and it would be amazing.

Maybe I like this idea. Maybe, maybe that that's where I should uh should be heading next is like like even if I can't execute it myself, like yeah, I like this idea. Okay, I like this idea.

You know, we we have had so many conversations with people that have said the number one contributor to their art journey being what it is is the collaborations that they do.

Okay.

There are some artists that are continually collaborating. They don't do a lot of solo stuff.

Yeah, yeah.

Now I haven't, I'm an emerging Dwight and I are both emerging artists. I haven't even got a sense of my style yet, really. So I I'm not doing any collaborating, but I think that that would be amazing. And based on every story we've heard, they all everybody goes off about how it's just opened doors for them that they would have never dreamed.

Okay, okay. I'll I'll I'll highly consider this. But talking about style, I was concerned about the idea that I don't have a certain style because I like doing different stuff. And interestingly, I'm embracing it even more, like not having a certain style, because you don't want to be kind of like boxed into one thing.

You want to- I think that sets you apart, Dana.

Yes, so that's that's the thing. Like if you if you can't find your style, this is not this is not a like actually it's might be a a better thing, like it's might be uh a positive thing.

So you know, I I think for a lot of us we try different mediums and we tried all different kinds of things looking for something that we really resonate with. And and sometimes we struggle to find that and we dabble with things, but we don't really get good at any of it. The difference then I see between that, because I've experienced that twice now. I mean, I'm I'm in my second round of trying all kinds of things and not quite landing on it. With you, where I see that you're different, and this makes you really unique as an artist because we go to lots of art stuff. Your work is very diverse, but your skill in everything that I've seen visually is spot on. That piece behind you, I'm assuming, is one of yours.

Yeah, yeah.

Finding Community And Support

That is amazing. And there's a difference in not being able to find your style and being able to have multiple styles. You're a rare being, but you excel at all of them. Everything I've seen that you've created has they're comp they they're like different as night and day, and yet they're they're stunning. You you have a gift.

Yeah, and I I think it's nice the way that you draw on what it is that you're taking in. Like it's all it's all informs, it all informs what it is that you're actually going to put on the page. And uh I mean the the way that you've had to play with the the geometric patterns, the the playful use of color, and you know, like I said earlier, the uh those pieces that you did with the the cowboy boots.

You know, the Yeah, I love I love the idea because I when I moved here and I started like I live in Plano, so I started like driving more to Dallas, and I would see on the on the toll way and everything, like Tex Arcana, and then Texoma. And I didn't understand what this is until someone like, yeah, it's Texas, Oklahoma, and Texas Park and stuff. And I'm like, this is so cool. So let me do something Tex Giza. So Giza, I'm from Giza from Kyrie in Egypt and Texas. So why not find like something to and uh to be honest? I first started it with my girls. So I called my figure drawings of women my girls, so they're my girls. Uh, I started first with my girls, like uh as a woman uh uh in the nude, and she's wearing cowboy boots, but she's also looking like she looks like like an Egyptian goddess kind of thing with the bald head and and like the the eye, like the horse eye, uh with the the geometric background behind her. So it's kind of like having this uh, but then because Texas is still like in Dettas, it's still pretty uh conservative when it comes to showing this kind of art. So I was like, okay, let me try something different. So I started with doing the cowboy boots because I got my first cowboy boots in uh uh in Austin. When I went to Austin the first time, it was in 2023, and since then I've been collecting cowboy boots. I love cowboy boots though. Um so I was like, okay, let me let me draw and paint my cowboy. So the cowboy boots that I've been doing, these are cowboy boots that I have. Oh yeah, so I have those. Um, and one of them, it's so funny, but the story of one of them, the one that has like the tulips in it, I really loved it. It was a limited edition one in Takovas, and I really loved them, and I wanted to get them for myself for my birthday, and then they sold out, so I was like, okay, whatever, I'll paint it. And I painted it, and a day one day before my birthday, they came back in stock.

So timing is everything, yeah, yeah.

TexGiza: Blending Cultures In Art

It's a very like, yeah, I know it's a very con consumeristic kind of like story, but like, yeah, I I just love love, I I love them anyway. So so and then I I started um I love blue bonnets too. It's so it's so funny how like you can come from a different culture, completely different background. Like I I love this diversity within me too, because I I didn't I know a lot of immigrants who like immigrate to a different country and even like become a citizen. Like I'm a I'm a citizen here and and all, but like uh they immigrate to a different country and they still can't um can't like even give a try of like blending in and anyway. Uh I might have blended into too much, but like like having this and yeah. So like being like even when I lived in New Orleans and in New Orleans, I was like, it's beautiful here, and I was like, I'm I'm part of this. Like even they were celebrating 300 years of New Orleans, and I'm like the past three years, I'm part of those 300 years. Like this is yeah, like it's uh and like even till now I would uh like uh bring kincakes for the for my kiddos because they they're both born born there and stuff like so it's just like like whatever place that we were part of, like it kind of like gets blended more into our like my like our culture and our like uh uh being and uh like yeah. So Texas, Tex, Texas has a huge influence to be honest, like it's overpowering. So yeah.

So with all the diversity of your work in each of the different styles, do you have a body of work in that style?

Uh this is a problem of mine, and I know that I am like very like this is something that I lack in, and this is why I'm not like showing in galleries or anything, because I don't have a body of work. Like I if I'm doing something, a certain style, I would have like uh uh three paintings or four paintings of that style, and then I jump into another thing. I don't have ADHD, or maybe I do, and I'm in denial, but I don't. I just jump into it.

ADHD is runs very high in the creatives community.

I I don't know. I don't want to say because I I I don't I don't wanna I don't wanna do you know yeah, I don't wanna I don't wanna add another thing that's uh like uh another extra thing that makes me like dwell on my my um shortcomings.

You know, with the diversity of your work, if you went back to each of those styles and developed a body in each style, you would appeal to a broad range of galleries.

Style, Bodies Of Work, And Audience

I know, I know. And this is what I so uh talking about the other art fair, uh I did the other art fair twice. I'm not doing it um I'm not doing it this year, but I did it twice uh uh last year and the year before. So the year before, it was my first time ever doing uh something like that of uh showing my art in a booth and standing in front of it. And to be honest, I didn't really know what to bring, especially that I have different different styles, different things. And so I was like, okay, let me bring in the thing that is so fully me creating for myself, not something that is a little bit like like twisted to cater to the eyes of someone else. So I brought my girls. It's good, but at the same time I learned something about like Texas more of like like a it happened a few times where where like people crossing by my booth and and like the they were there will be like young kids and and their moms would be covering their eyes, even though like the nudity is like not in your face because the other art fair has certain like uh not criteria, what's the word for it? Like they have certain like things, like if it's completely rules and regulations, yeah. Regulations, if it's so nude, they are not gonna let me put it up anyway. So it wasn't, but still like watching this dynamic, it was pretty interesting. But I also learned something about like who the people who are interested in my art are, because it's a lot of uh it was more like uh uh women, uh uh a lot of a lot from the from the queer community too, uh, that were so interested in it, especially like the prints and all of that of mine. Uh some of them are like kind of like the spiritual uh like um uh crowd. So yeah, uh, so that that was it for this uh first time. That was in 2024. Last year I was like, okay, let me bring in all my geometric stuff. And it definitely was much more attractive uh because it's so bright and colorful, and people were like really stopping my by my booth a lot, which was a good thing. So I'm like, this is this is nice to know about like what is more appealing to the crowd here, but at the same time, as much as I love to do that geometric work, uh it's very technical. So I don't really express myself much in it.

Uh it's more It's like coloring inside the lines, isn't it?

Yes, yes, yes. Uh so it's very technical, it's very repetitive, which is actually I started doing it. I started doing that geometric work as a way for meditating. So and I love doing it, but this is not how I really express myself. It's more of like like just to free my mind. So yeah.

Yeah, well the the the drawing behind you, um, I mean there's yes, there's lines in it, but there's they're not straight. Uh I mean every line is its own individual piece of art. I mean, I'm looking at it and I'm just going, it's it is kind of a gigantic female doodle.

Yes, yes.

I mean, it's just really breathtaking. I you know, I think that you you uh need to find a specialized audience for your girls because they're out there. They're out there.

Yeah, I I would think uh you you really need to lean into developing that work with the girls because the the only way that your audience is going to find you is that they know that you're there.

Yes, and there there it doesn't matter what you're painting, there's always going to be an audience for it. There's gonna be people that cover their kids' eyes and and make snide comments under their breath. You know, we have to learn to be um like immune to that. We went into a a restaurant a couple of weeks ago for a gathering. There were like, I don't know, five of us at the table, and it was a really cold day, and I had on some holy Levi jeans and a sweatshirt. I was dressed down, but I put a big leopard fur coat on. And as we were walking out of the restaurant, there was a couple that, you know, looked like they were from witch dictates, and she couldn't get his attention fast enough, and they stared at me, pointed and stared at me as I walked by in my big fur coat. And that would upset a lot of people. I got like uh just a laugh out of it. I just, I just, you know, I just laughed, you know, because I I dress for me. I don't care what anybody else thinks. I wear my hair for me. I it, you know, even when I paint, my goal is to paint paintings that take my breath away. I don't care if they take anybody else's breath away. And there's a certain I haven't always had this. It's been a it's been a lifelong process to get to this immunity where I'm I have, as the old saying goes, just less fucks to give.

Yeah, yeah, exactly. Exactly. Yeah.

Your your girls are beautiful.

Thank you.

And there's definitely a market for them.

Markets, Nudity, And Fit For Dallas

Yeah, yeah. It's it's not really uh much here in Dallas, which is fine. I'm just uh so I've been kind of like uh uh trying to explore other areas, but within because I have to stay in budget because any if I want to go anywhere outside of uh DFW, uh I have like my two uh little kiddos. I have to uh uh like find someone to stay with them and and all of that because I'm I'm still a single mom. So um so I will be in Austin actually next month uh for for an art uh like the same idea, like the same idea like the other art fair, but it's in Austin. Uh and what encouraged me is because I have this uh friend of mine that I met through one of the art markets that I've been doing here in Dallas. He has like this um uh product line, like skincare product line, and uh it is so funny, like he is he is white as you know, but his skin line is uh very much inspired by Egyptian uh uh beauty things and stuff like that, and it's called raw cosmetics, or I think raw something else, but it's raw, like RA, and and um uh so uh we first met in 2024, and he gave me all a lot of products like while we were um packing up our booth. He gave me a lot of products, and I was like for free, and I'm like, oh man, he's amazing. And then I met him again uh last November uh for for the same art market, and like I I gave him one of the prints as a gift, so he put that print up because it's uh it's like um I I call her uh Isis, ISIS the the goddess, ISIS not to begin. So uh uh uh uh Isis and she's like very Egyptian, and uh and I said like it would be perfect for his his like uh because with his product line and everything. So he put it up at other art markets in Austin and the places that he has been to, and he then texted me and he told me I sold it. Send me your Venmo because I sold it. I'm so sorry, but I sold it, and I'm like, why? Like it's yours, and he's like, send me prints of yours, and I will put them at my boot. And it's he's he's an amazing person, he's an amazing guy. I really love like I the idea of being around other creatives and whatever, it's just like amazing. And he I I did send him uh prints, and I would be sitting there and just like I'm getting Venmo. So um, yeah, so I it's it's uh it's good to kind of like explore different areas around like in in the US, uh, because Dallas is beautiful, it's uh it's uh an amazing big city, it has a lot of art in it and everything, but definitely it can be limiting and and certainly it's conservative.

It's conservative largely. So I just gotta hint hint there's a potential collaboration between you and and the makeup guy.

I don't makeup guy, who's makeup guy? Who makeup guy?

No, they got the skin products.

No, no, I don't think so because he has already his uh his own uh like style for the everything, but uh he the the collaboration here is uh uh him accepting to have my things at his booth. That's uh that's the collaboration. So yeah, yeah.

I don't know. You're you're abs you're Egyptian and you're gorgeous. You could be a spokesmodel for his line.

Well we'll we'll see, we'll see, we'll ask him.

I mean put it out there. I mean, what a better way to get in front of people.

So yeah.

You know, as a I mean, just think about the publicity. If you were a spokesmodel for that for that makeup line, that cosmetic line, you'd have exposure to people where you could then share your art. And I lived in Austin before I moved to Dallas. They are a much more liberal community, much more open, and your girls will do well there.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. I'm I'm excited to to go there next month and uh and see how how things will uh turn out. Like really excited. Excited also to to meet up with a few friends there too. It's it's a beautiful, beautiful city. Beautiful city.

It is yeah, yeah. They have a traffic problem, but it is a beautiful city.

That's putting it mildly.

I can't say that about Houston at all. I don't like Houston.

Houston.

Houston's just very, very big.

I don't know. Something is off about it, especially with the weather. I'm like, it has New Orleans weather without any of the charm.

Yep, there you go. Yes. It's like living in a sauna. I lived there when I was a kid. I've lived all over Texas, but I lived in Houston for six years and I was a child, and I still remember how bad the humidity was. It's suffocating. Yeah.

Yeah.

So, question. We've talked about a lot of stuff. I want to circle back to our conversation about becoming because we we've talked about the possibility of you appealing to a lot of different types of galleries by developing each one of your styles into a body of work. Now, things are changing in the art world, but if you're gonna go the route of galleries and want to be in galleries, that body of work, everybody will tell you it's important. So the question is, who would you need to become to be able to develop those various bodies of work? What would need to change in here?

Austin Opportunities And Collaboration

Uh, I just need to get out of my mind about like being uh not good enough because I know I'm good at certain stuff. And the thing is, I my my target is not my goal is not to be in a geli. Like this is the thing. Like uh my goal is to to have my art out there regardless the the way, like is if it's an art market or even like uh on my website or just like going on the street with it, you know, just just to to like it's more about about just creating and putting it out there because I have always created and and had to hide it, uh, but now I don't need to hide it anymore. I I have a I have an interesting relationship with with with my art because of how like the the environment that I grew up in. Uh like uh so that's that's why like I don't want to go too much in details because it's it's very like uh it's it's sensitive because it has to do with my my especially with my mother. So um uh so yeah, it's it's very messed up too. Like I don't know, like even seeing my kids how they they do though all the time, and they are still good at school, so I'm like, what is what is what is I'm like yeah, it's not that hard to to like it's hard to raise a child, but it's not hard to really accept them, like you know, it's just again uh so I don't want to be hiding things anymore, like I want to express the way I want to express. Like lately, I've been doing a lot of uh sketches of myself, and this is because this is this has been something that I've always done, but I never really put it out there. So I just started like posting them uh lately, and it's so funny. I definitely get a lot of like interestingly um strange like DMs and whatever, but I'm like whatever. It's like uh when it with freedom and certain things uh comes certain responsibilities. So I knew that I'm putting this out there, I will definitely be getting certain kind of uh like uh attention, uh, which is not the attention that I'm seeking, but whatever. There are lots of interesting, perverted or like think people that think they're funny, but whatever. I'm still doing what I want to do, uh, as long as I'm keeping myself safe in whatever way.

Um good for you for not feeding the trolls.

Yeah, like mentally and uh and uh and physically I'm I'm doing well. So but I I can understand that if I'm not in a in a strong mental position, I would definitely it was would be very hard doing something like that. So but uh I'm thankful I am. Um uh but yeah, but and the other thing that I have been uh really um I've been kind of like thinking about it for the past two years and acting on it, but kind of like in a slower process, it's been taking me a little bit more. Uh painting murals because I want to go big and I realized like going big on canvas is not the thing really for me. I love painting with wall paint, so I did uh do this project uh a couple of months ago at a new restaurant that opened in uh in uptown Dallas at School Babel. I did uh like a ceiling mural, I did like the s sun and stars around it and stuff like that, and I loved I loved painting it, even though my neck was like I was painting like this old on the ladder, but I loved painting it. And uh um so lately I've been also like talking about collaboration. I I can't say that I'm collaborating with her because it's more like um like an apprentice kind of thing. Like I I have a friend of mine who is a muralist in uh in uh Fort Worth. I go uh and also here in Dallas, but she works mainly in Fort Worth. Uh I kind of like go and uh and like help her and learn from her. Uh yeah, she's she's so cool. So yeah, that's that's that's one of the things that I kind of like uh am working on more lately too. So yeah.

I love murals and we we we know several muralists.

Yeah, I'm I'm eager to to go and check out uh what you did on the ceiling of Babel.

Yeah, it's it's it's so cool and and it's so interesting because I was so with murals you kind of like have your own style, but at the same time you're you're you're being like you're being hired by a client to do their own vision. So so it's really nice having this kind of like balance, like I'm expressing myself and which kind of self-expression am I using? Like for this one, it's not really about the the design, but it's more about like my brush strokes and how I'm doing it and how it's like yeah.

We we we have a friend that's a muralist and uh she's into birds. And so she's traveled to I think to Europe, hasn't she, Dwight, to do a mural. She's been some some exotic places and gets these big jobs and been all over the world. Like she's she's had one job that was something like a hundred thousand dollar job to to paint a big mural. And her one rule where she, you know, retains something for her, is she said, all of my murals have at least one bird in them. I'm a bird lover. And so if I'm gonna paint a mural for you, the only way I'm gonna do that is if you let me put a bird in the mural. And they and they let her.

Becoming The Artist You Are

Yeah. And uh for listeners, uh, you can find out more about her in episode 39.

Andrea Holmes.

Andrea Holmes, uh, birds, brushes, and breaking the starving artist myth with Andrea Holmes.

He has all this memorized, it's just crazy. I don't know how he does it. I'm it I'm envious. Oh, what a great story, Dina. You you just have so much going for you. I I I want to hold space for you to overcome whatever doubts you're having about yourself because girl, you got it going on.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. I keep reminding myself that. Plus, I I do I do a lot of like interesting stuff in uh in the art community too. So I'm I'm proud of them. Like I do host these figure drawing meetups. I don't teach in them, but uh I uh provide the space and uh and the and the model and the uh like snacks and all of these things. And uh and also like I get to time uh because the the model would be doing like short and uh and long poses. So uh it's more like being the one in charge of the uh what is the word? Somebody told me the word for it, I forgot it now, but just in charge of organizing everything, but it's like yeah, there's another not referee. It's like yeah, anyway.

So what's holding you back from teaching?

Uh looks like because I'm I'm working now, I know we're we're January 20th, but I'm uh working on my business plan for this year. Uh I'm a few days uh too late, but I late better late than never, uh working on the business plan because I have a few, a couple of opportunities uh that I had since last year that I've kind of like been uh putting like sulking on or and just like just trying to figure out how I can do it, if I'm good enough to do it. But this year I feel like I should I should just give it a try. Uh because even if I there's no real failure. That's the other thing that I can't like there. It's not gonna be because it's it's not like I have a human life that I have to kind of like revive or something. It's just like it's art. Regardless who's gonna show up, there's gonna be paint. We're we're still gonna have fun. So uh just like take it easy.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah. Well, and you know, just to to bring it around to a baseball analogy, it it's better to swing and miss than it is to just uh uh foul out, you know. If you if you never take your swing, you know, it's it's it's kind of painful. You'll you'll never know what you could have done.

Exactly, exactly. Like with the figure going meetups, I first started, I started it uh over a year ago. Uh and I was co-hosting with another artist friend of mine, and because I was kind of like, oh, I don't know if I can do it by myself. Uh, even though I'm the one who provided the space uh and and all of that. But uh and then like, no, it can be done. And then uh since uh December, I started hosting a second one completely by myself with uh with nostalgia and noise. There they do like events and things like that.

And familiar with them.

And I started doing it, and the first time I was there by myself, so I'm the one setting everything, and it turned out great. And I'm like, I've been doing it for a couple of times now, and I'm like, I can do it. So, like, yeah, it's just like I can do it.

Murals, Apprenticeship, And Scale

So yeah, you you have a built-in audience to market to now. You have all these people that have been coming for a year. Now you launch a class and people are just gonna sign up. You've got no like and trust, you know. I've been studying this recently and and teaching art on your own terms, not in a school or anything like that, on but on your own terms, and and a lot of it online is an unbelievable way to supplement your income. In fact, it can it can be the the biggest part of your income. I took an online class from an artist recently that lives in Canada. It was, I believe, six or eight weeks long. And um, it was all prerecorded. You know, she would come on and do like a live QA once a week, but all of it was pre-recorded, so she's not having to work where people are just watching these recordings over those six weeks. And she had over 300 people sign up for this class and pay her$450 apiece.

Yeah, yeah.

That comes to a meager$135,000 for eight weeks' worth of work. And most of the work was done when she pre-recorded the whole thing.

Yeah.

So she she met uh live Zoom eight times to make$135,000. She's really she's really good at what she does. And you know, it's you when you buy it, she she you're you know, you're she's in an active class where there's a little community that you can talk to, but you get lifetime access to whatever you purchased. So but yeah, crazy. Crazy what and she just promotes it on in Facebook um ads and fills these classes right and left.

The beautiful thing about what you're describing with these meetups is how even in just transitioning from going from co-hosting to doing them on your own, you you're proving that just by doing it, you carve the path that makes it easiest for you. You figure out what works, you throw out what doesn't, and you you find your way to something that really is the right fit for you and for for those that you're serving.

Yeah. Yeah. Dina, how big is your list now? Your people that you send uh the invites to the the live.

So we have a meetup group uh that has like I think over 500 people on it, but but um uh because that meetup group has been created uh with my friend who we co-host together. Um so but I kind of like took it over. So so I took his his people.

I've got a suggestion and a challenge for you. Send all those people a little message and just say, I'm considering offering a class. If I did, would you be interested and just see who pings back? I bet you'll be shocked.

Okay, okay, okay, we'll see about that. Okay, I like this idea.

You know, it you you've already got this built-in audience. I mean, you've been preparing for something that I don't think you even are aware that you've been preparing for.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. And it's so interesting, but people, because I remember when I started uh uh advertising the the other uh one, uh my friend was kind of concerned that people would get confused. And I told him, No, uh like uh like I can I can uh like mark them like this is in this uh uh location and this one is in that location. Like people are not that feeble, like they're they know how to see words. Uh so yes, like so yeah, so it makes sense because it's called Dallas Artists Meetup. Uh and like it can be more than just like figure drawing. That's uh that's uh it can be like it's Dallas artists.

You can expand it into anything you want, expand it into.

Yes, exactly, because there are uh some of the the the artists that would show up to the to the meetups, uh they come, they do digital art. So they're they're basically sketching on their pads. Uh some of them uh come with paint, so they're not really doing charcoal and pencil, some of them do watercolors, some of them, so it's it's very um cool seeing how everybody is just like coming in and expressing themselves. Some of them are very uh realistic, like they're realistic uh sketchers, and others are very um abstract, like they just want to do a few lines of like like this is expressing that gesture, and this is that's it.

Yeah, it sounds amazing. Do you just have a blast when you do that?

Hosting Figure Drawing Meetups

I I love it. I just love it, and and also when the models, I'm still going to post the the one that we did uh on Sunday. The models are amazing, it's so amazing. Some of them, like the last one that we had, she's a yogi, and I was I'm like, I I need to start yoga now because I'm so amazed at how she's like uh it's not about the flexibility, but also keeping the pose for 10 minutes, sometimes 20 or like the 20 minutes are usually laying down, but 10 minutes and she was like contorted and in a and she didn't shake at all.

Wow. Wow.

That is so amazing. Usually the models, like especially if they have like one arm up, they start like you know, shaking, but no, she I'm like yoga, yoga is the yoga is my new thing now. Like I want to do it.

You're you're you're quite accomplished. I'm impressed.

Yeah. Well, as we draw near the the end of our time, um is there anything that you would like to share with our listeners that we haven't had a chance to cover yet?

Any words of wisdom?

I don't think so. I think like like I I know they they would sound cliches, but really because uh uh I think it's genuinely believing them, but just like like really trusting the process. Like even if it's taking time and even even if the process is going moving slow but just like trusting the process because um like i feel like i'm like older than some of the creatives that started like earlier or whatever uh even though i'm young but like i like older in comparison to other people but the thing is that everything does take its time and everything eventually like if you're if you're genuinely consistent with it which is something that i need to work on but if you're genuinely consistent with it with it and just keep doing the work it it does it does unravel into something good like yeah thank you for saying that i needed to hear that yeah yeah yeah well this has been a fantastic conversation we thoroughly enjoyed it we're so glad that you could join us yeah I'm I'm so happy that you have me to like you're having me to thank you for sharing your amazing story it really was a joy to be part of this thank you thank you