WEBVTT
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I'm not sure where it's going to take him.
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That's one of the things that, you know, I get asked.
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They're like well, have you all faced budget cuts?
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Well, yes, we have, but what does this look like?
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You know, I don't know.
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I'm still dreaming that big dream.
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I'm not only for myself, but you know, for the't know, I'm still dreaming that big dream.
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I'm not only for myself, but, you know, for the communities that we work in, and I'm trying to make sure that art is accessible for everyone.
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Hello.
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Yes, you guessed it, it's Maddox and Dwight.
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We're the Connections in Community, guys, and we're here to bring you another absolutely fabulous episode of.
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For the Love of Creatives, our guest today is Alicia Oliver.
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Welcome, alicia.
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Thank you.
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Thank you, dwight Maddox, and just everyone.
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Thank you for inviting me.
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I was really looking forward to being able to sit with you all and just have a conversation, and you know I've always enjoyed just being able to talk to people.
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I'm a people person, so thank you, thank you.
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Thank you for having people.
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I'm a people person, so thank you, thank you.
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Thank you for having me.
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A little bit about me I am the executive director at Texas Folklife.
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I've been with them for about three years.
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We are a folk arts nonprofit for the state of Texas.
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I am in the DFW area.
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I have team members that are scattered throughout the state and you know we are.
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Our mission is to really celebrate and amplify the voices of folk arts and folk leaders and traditional artists throughout the state and making sure that they have that platform.
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And so that's a little bit about me.
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By training, I am a biocultural anthropologist and so I know people are like well, how does that intersection happen, anthropology and art and make that make sense?
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And so I know we'll probably talk a little bit about that journey as well.
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Well, and it was a fellow anthropologist that introduced you to us.
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Former featured guest Jane Baldwin was having you at the Leadership Arts Institute reception.
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Yes, I have to say that slowly because it doesn't roll off my tongue easy yet, but yes, that was delightful.
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We absolutely love Jane.
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She's a really neat person.
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Yeah, she is.
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I'm so happy that she made that introduction.
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She and I were members of the same cohort.
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For you know, again, I'm always thinking of is it BCA, is it LAI, but it's the Leadership Arts.
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You know, that institute that we participated in and I'm always surprised when I, you know, meet a fellow anthropologist and Jane is an archaeologist but we're under that same umbrella, and when we were having the conversation and she's like you know, I'm an archaeologist but we're under that same umbrella, and when we were having the conversation and she's like you know, I'm an archaeologist, I'm like no way, because for me it's usually rare and we just hit it off.
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So to see her in her role as an archaeologist, and then, you know, in this creative space, I'm like, oh, I'm not the only one that's out here, and so that was really pleasing.
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But when she introduced us, I was just like I felt that chemistry there, that connection, and I was like this is going to be great, you know, to be able to just be in fellowship with two like-minded folks.
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Yeah, we definitely felt it as well as soon as she introduced us, and that's the way so many of our people come to us is we either get introduced or we're people people also so we're out and about all the time meeting mostly creatives.
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We do a lot of stuff that has to do with art and other forms of creativity.
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So well, let's jump in and find out a little bit more of your story, since you kind of started there.
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Why don't you tell us how anthropology fit into that whole creative scene for you?
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You know, anthropology, I say, was a happy accident for me.
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I had been a veteran educator in the public school system for almost 20 years and I just felt myself like being very dissatisfied with teaching kids to pass a standardized test.
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You know it's like is that?
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You know it's different from when I was in school and I'm not going to sit here and age myself, but I probably did just now, but it was.
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I was like they're not, it's not true learning, because it's all about getting them to pass this state mandated exam.
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And love teaching, love being in the classroom.
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But you know, there was at a time where I was about to be an empty nester as well and I was like what am I going to do with?
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What am I going to do?
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You know, I love being in the classroom.
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I love my kiddos, not really happy with the state mandated test, my daughter's about to graduate, so what am I going to do with my time?
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And I started taking just random classes, everything from a return to art history, which I've always loved, and stumbled upon anthropology, stumbled upon anthropology, and I had a professor and I was like well, you know, I think I want to travel and I want to go to all these museums.
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I want to do this and that.
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And he was like, well, you want to do a lot, you know.
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He's like, well, have you looked at anthropology?
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And I was like, no, because at the time, you know, I knew archaeology and I knew how that fit into the scope of things.
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But I was like, well, what would I do with anthropology?
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And so I took sort of taking classes at UNT and fell in love with it and I'm like, oh, this is everything that I have ever been interested in.
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It has to do with different cultures and communities and just their whole life ways and the art and the food and the music.
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And I was like this is great.
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And continued on with those classes and got a second bachelor's degree in anthropology.
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And then my daughter was getting ready to graduate and it was like, well, now what?
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And I would still.
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That thought is what am I going to do?
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Am I going to travel?
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Am I going to see if I'm going to do any kind of museum work?
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What does this look like?
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Am I going to go to graduate school?
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And I had family in Oklahoma.
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I tell people I am a Texas girl with Oklahoma roots, deep Oklahoma roots and I was like, well, maybe I'll go to graduate school and applied.
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And it was very different from my experience at UNT, polar opposites.
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So I went in and at UNT everybody was like, oh, we're one big family, it's you know, and it was great.
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My experience was great and got to OU and it was a very different experience and I didn't feel I didn't have that kind of we're all family, we're all creative folks.
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It was it's theory, theory, theory.
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But I knew that I had loved, I just had fallen in love with anthropology and started looking at different ways.
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I wanted to, you know, bring that into something new.
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Still wasn't sure what I was going to do.
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The thought in the back of my mind is well, I will be able to, you know, teach in a university setting and sit around and read books all day, and that was not the case.
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But that's what I have.
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It's like this is going to be great.
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I'm just going to read, read, read.
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I'll teach what I want, we'll talk about my favorite artwork, I'll be able to infuse it.
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But that was not the case.
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But she was involved in research and working with other communities and still being able to teach and still infuse those things that I like.
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So people were like oh, you should teach anthropology, and I'm like I did, but my favorite courses to teach were humanities.
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I mean, I love teaching the humanities because I could talk about, you know, kara Walker or Kara Vaggio or any of my favorite artists, and then I would always have them do a portfolio of some sort that included art pieces.
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And so you know, I was like well, this is great, I'm still doing some anthropology, but I'm doing it in my way.
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That's beautiful, that you could carve your path that way, and it sounds like you rolled with the punches, because what I was hearing was how you just had life happening and you were ready to pivot.
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You were ready to meet the challenges head on and you squeezed some lemonade out of some lemons.
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Yes, absolutely.
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I was ready to pivot and you know, I think about my mom, always says she's like, well, you get bored easily.
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And I'm like no, I don't, I just have a lot of interest.
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And she's like, no, I think you get bored easily.
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She said you were this way as a child and you know, I think about that now, as someone who is very senior in age, I'm thinking do I get bored easily or do I just have so many interests and I think that there's so much to do.
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You know there.
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And she was like no, you are bored.
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And I was telling her that I bought a bass guitar.
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Don't know the first thing about playing the bass guitar, but I have always wanted to play string instruments.
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My parents had another idea for me growing up.
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They wanted me to be a flautist.
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So they bought me a flute and had me practice and practice and practice and I was like I want to play the guitar.
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I was like I want to play the guitar.
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And so, you know, as someone who was exploring all of my interests, I started to find I have a cello that I've named and an acoustic guitar and most recently, that bass guitar.
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And I was telling my mom.
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She says I told you you get bored.
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And I'm like, no, I just have so many interests.
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But I tell her, I'm like I can look at you and she is very arts driven.
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I think she would have been an artist if she did not have to be a homemaker, because she is very artistic Her mother, my grandmother, very artistic and I think she would have been an artist.
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And I'm like we have this kind of same thread that runs through the women Her mother, my grandmother, very artistic and I think she would have been an artist.
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And I'm like we have this kind of same thread that runs, you know, through the women in our family.
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Because we've had to be, you know, providers for children, we kind of let that art piece go.
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But for me it's just like well, I'm going to figure out a way to bring it into everything I do.
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And you know, thinking about that, in those initial classes that I was taking, those art history classes where you know we were given projects to do and I would do a collage, and you know I would be able to go out because I do photography and just shoot things that were interesting to me.
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It was, it just all made sense and I was able to take that and to put it into that anthropology as well.
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So I told my mom I'm like well that that piece is there.
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You all have had interest, but it's that you all, you know, put that in a box and kind of just left it because you, you know, needed to take care of the family.
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But for me, I've always been, I'm going to push the box, I'm going to push the envelope, you know.
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I'm just going to see what I can do to make sure that I can make everything fit together.
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I don't sense an energy of boredom at all.
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I think I'm really resonating with you because I have a great, a lot of interests.
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I mean, there's just so many things that I would love to experience and explore and there's just not enough energy or hours or you know enough of me to go around.
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So I do what I can do, but I've been that way most of my life and I've experienced boredom.
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it's a completely different energy now, and you know, when you say that I was just like because I do, I would ask myself am I just bored?
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Um, and I would.
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I kind of have a running joke with my friends.
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I'm like, well, if I'm bored, then I know I'm going to get into trouble.
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And they're like well, what are you talking about?
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I'm just like, well, let's not have me get just been so much that I've been interested in that either.
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You know, I wasn't allowed to pursue something, you know, like art history.
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I love art history, I mean love it.
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But I would hear how are you going to sustain yourself?
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You know, how are you going to take care of your children?
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And that's one of the reasons why I got into education is because you know I had two kids, that I needed to have a schedule that aligned with their school schedule, you know.
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And so maybe for me, now that we're having this conversation, because I hadn't thought about it that way, maybe there was a time when I was like, maybe my mom and my grandmother, I did put that in a box, maybe my mom and my grandmother where I did put that in a box and then, as my daughter was getting ready to graduate, I was able to open the lid of that box and I hadn't thought about that until just now that maybe there was that time for me, like them, where I just put all of those interests and things I wanted to pursue in a box and then, when I knew that I could do so, then I just jumped both feet in and just started exploring all those things that appealed to me.
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And I still do that, you know.
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It's almost inescapable.
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That's, that's what was modeled, what was imprinted, and I know that it's the struggle that a lot of the creatives that we talk to deal with, where they have people that love them, that try to steer them toward what they perceive as safe, and for someone who is truly creative, safe is potentially the worst thing that you can do for anything that really lights you up.
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Yeah, I completely agree, dwight, and I'm thinking about that now and I'm just like whoa did I just have a light bulb moment where I'm just recognizing that, because you know that being in the classroom, being an educator, that was very safe.
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You know, that was consistent.
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I know that I'm going to get paid in the summer, I know that I'm going to be off when the kids are off and then making that pivot and really not knowing, okay, what is this going to lead?
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Where is this going to lead?
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You know there's this level of uncertainty that was there and still, I mean, even though I'm in this position at Texas Folklife, I still try to carve out time.
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Oh, I'm going to do this because I have more freedom now to do these things, but you know, there still is that there, just a little bit like that.
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I think if I wanted to go into art full time, could I sustain myself and what would that look like now?
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And would I be like a struggling artist?
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Or you know, and I've been told you're very idealistic and sometimes you're romanticized things and I don't think I do.
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I'm just thinking of casting this big vision, you know, and I'm like, well, I don't know, that would be something I have to think about.
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But my daughter, she was like well, why don't you stop doing everything Because you love what you do when it comes to art?
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And she said and just be an artist full time.
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And I tell him, like Danielle, you know it's not going to pay the bills right now, but it's one of those things that I do come back to.
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You know, whether it's writing or writing poetry, or you know, working on a collage, or just being able to go out and shoot on a regular basis.
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You know, and I'm shooting things that people probably say is that art, but it's art to me.
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Yeah, good for you.
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I love that.
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You know, one of the things that you're sharing, or what I'm hearing and I love this is we talk to a lot of people who they try to force things.
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You know, you said when it came time for your daughter to go off to school, you were like, wow, I'm going to be an empty nester.
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I wonder what this is going to look like.
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I wonder what I'm going to do.
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And instead of jumping in and just trying to force something to happen, I'm hearing that you just were in a state of being and you let the varying, different things present themselves to you and you picked the one that was the shiniest, the one that drew you in the most.
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And what a beautiful way to move through life.
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I'm like sitting here going oh, I'm having a Harry Met Sally moment where I want what she's having, because I'm not always that way, I'm not always just somebody that just says let's just see where this takes me, and I wish I were more like that.
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And I'm hearing that from you.
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And so I'm celebrating in this moment because I just love what you're sharing.
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Well, I appreciate that, even with my position at Texas Folk Life, I'm not sure where it's going to take, and that's one of the things that I get asked.
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They're like well, have you all faced budget cuts?
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Well, yes, we have.
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Well, what does this look like?
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You know, I don't know.
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I am still dreaming that big dream, not only for myself but for the communities that we work in, and I'm trying to make sure that art is accessible for everyone, because I know the impact that it not only that it's had on me personally.
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You know, I see the impact, and then you'll hear me reference my mom and grandmother a lot, but because they were true artists and I just know, I mean, I know that for my mom, that's what she would have done if she could have, you know, and she didn't have that opportunity.
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And so I'm thinking, you know, making it accessible for those folks who have always desired to do something creative.
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That's what drives me at Texas Faux Fiber, when I'm working in these rural communities, if it's an art desert, or if it's with a youth group who they've never heard of modeling clay, it's that when you see their face light up, when we're working with aging communities, and you see that something has sparked a memory with them, whether it's a musical selection or hearing a piece of poetry.
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For me, that, just that, just it drives me.
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Because I do think, I think back to my mom, who you know now she's she's up in age, but she'll tell me all the time she's like well, I got my new set of colors and she's making these designs and it's something that motivates her.
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And she was in my care for a while.
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She's with my sister now.
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And you know I asked her I'm like well, if you could just go back right now and take classes or continuing education, would you do that?
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And I could see her face light up and she was thinking about it.
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She's like oh, I think I'm too old or I'll be the oldest person in class and I don't want to do this.
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She's like I'm fine just doing this.
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But I know in that second she was considering it because she didn't have that opportunity.
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And you know I was like well, maybe we'll start slow.
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And we went to the library and this is rural Oklahoma.
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We went to the library and I have a picture and I can send it to you later that we were there and I was like well, let's just look at some art books.
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You know, because she had never been to a museum.
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You know, all her life was dedicated to my stepfather, who was a very controlling person, and you know so, and she had never had a library card.
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And here she is in her 70s and we're signing her up for a library card and that day was like she was probably 12 years old again, because she was just like look at all of these books about art.
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And she loves to cook.
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And she says look at all of these books, these cookbooks.
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And it was just so profound to me and to know that there are other folks out there who have those same kind of experiences, that's what drives me, is to know that if I can share that with other folks, just the joy that it would bring them in that moment.
00:22:36.061 --> 00:22:45.269
I listen to what you say, but I also have a tendency to listen for what you don't say, and I hear things that you don't say.
00:22:45.269 --> 00:22:46.462
I know that sounds weird.
00:22:46.462 --> 00:22:50.192
And I hear things that you don't say.
00:22:50.192 --> 00:22:52.457
I know that sounds weird, but I'm hearing you right now.
00:22:52.457 --> 00:23:00.660
What I'm hearing that you're not saying is that Grandma didn't have the opportunity to really be an artist and Mom didn't have the opportunity.
00:23:00.660 --> 00:23:06.333
And you have the opportunity.
00:23:09.664 --> 00:23:31.155
And you're correct, you're right, you're right, and I think about that you could see your mom's face light up when you ask her about that, if she could go back and redo it and her face lit up.
00:23:31.155 --> 00:23:33.525
Whole roadmap right there.
00:23:33.525 --> 00:23:42.451
You know, like in that moment what came to me was she's not saying it, but she's demonstrating in some way.
00:23:42.451 --> 00:23:44.546
Jump on it.
00:23:44.546 --> 00:23:47.473
Don't do what I did, you know, jump on it.
00:23:47.473 --> 00:23:49.519
Don't do what I did, you know, jump on it.
00:23:50.183 --> 00:23:51.981
Yeah, and that's what I tell my kids, because if you don't?
00:23:52.001 --> 00:23:52.565
you'll always wonder.
00:23:54.380 --> 00:24:45.666
Yes, I wonder that, for both my grandmother and my mother, I think about that I was like if things would have been different because she was a young mom, she had me when she was 17, and this is, you know, at a time when that just was not popular and they were at a Catholic school and it was really not popular for her to have gotten pregnant and, you know, to have me, and I think all the time, you know what if circumstances would have been different for her, where she wouldn't have had to go into the workforce and provide, and then what if she didn't marry, you know, my stepfather, who was very, you know, controlling and she, you know, wouldn't have had to be the homemaker.
00:24:46.067 --> 00:24:48.672
What if her circumstances would have been different?
00:24:48.672 --> 00:24:59.846
And I think about that probably every day because, you know, I call and I check on her and she's with my sister now and I think what would her life have looked like?
00:24:59.846 --> 00:25:05.000
You know, and for me, her happiness is something that I'm always thinking about.
00:25:05.000 --> 00:25:16.955
But, maddox, you said something and you said, you know, thinking about that roadmap and like her kind of this implicitly or silently saying, just jump on it, don't do it.
00:25:16.955 --> 00:25:18.861
But that's the same thing I tell my daughter.
00:25:21.824 --> 00:25:35.794
This is another conversation that is really hitting home for me now that we're having this, because I found myself saying the same thing to my daughter that many people have said to me how are you going to take care of your family?
00:25:36.654 --> 00:25:39.457
And I'm sure that's the same thing that my mom heard.
00:25:39.457 --> 00:25:50.367
And talking to my daughter, who's very much a creative and plays all the instruments and she paints and she writes and she dances.
00:25:50.367 --> 00:25:54.301
But in my mind I'm always thinking is that going to be enough to sustain her?
00:25:54.301 --> 00:26:00.213
You know to like take care of her financially and what is that?
00:26:00.213 --> 00:26:01.761
You know, how is that going to shape?
00:26:01.761 --> 00:26:14.509
But then I'm also telling her I want you to be happy and what you do, and I celebrate all that she does, you know, when it comes to this artistic, creative side of who she is.
00:26:14.509 --> 00:26:25.624
But in the and there's that little piece of me that says I want you to be, you know, I want to make sure that all is well with you and that you are, you know, able to take care of yourself financially.
00:26:25.624 --> 00:26:49.819
But now that we're talking, and I'm seeing it, it's like there's like this continuum, this kind of this thread that has happened across generations, you know, and I don't think I really have thought about it until now now?
00:26:49.839 --> 00:27:01.945
Well, and something else that I see and this comes up in several of our conversations with our featured guests we, as human beings, have a tendency to go through life as if it's an either or, and it doesn't have to be an either, or.
00:27:01.945 --> 00:27:13.353
It can be an and and, when we're willing to look at the and it opens up possibilities for us that would have never been available to us in a world of either or.
00:27:13.353 --> 00:27:16.201
But even school teaches us either or.
00:27:16.201 --> 00:27:24.103
It's either the right answer or it's the wrong answer, and we go through life because of the testing you were talking about.
00:27:24.103 --> 00:27:31.471
It's all, there's one right answer, and it trains us to think that there's one right answer in everything and in life.
00:27:31.471 --> 00:27:33.051
That's just not true.
00:27:33.692 --> 00:27:47.957
There are multiple right answers in life, but we don't look at it that way because we've had a system that's indoctrinated us into one right answer.
00:27:50.539 --> 00:27:59.471
So true, we've had a couple of different people on the podcast that one said you know, I told myself when I started coming up through the ranks that I wasn't going to only have one passion, I was going to have two passions.
00:27:59.471 --> 00:28:02.063
He claimed that for himself.
00:28:02.063 --> 00:28:08.693
He has a corporate job where he's a tech person with Microsoft and he loves his job.
00:28:08.693 --> 00:28:26.934
On the other hand, he's an actor and now he's starting to produce and he loves that and he's finagled to get Microsoft to be flexible with his schedule so he can do all of the acting and the producing.
00:28:26.934 --> 00:28:33.970
And he said and I don't intend to give either one of them up, I love both of them so much that I'm going to do both of them.
00:28:33.970 --> 00:28:37.569
And I thought, wow, there's the.
