#073: The Quiet Cost of Disconnection… and Finding Our Way Back With Ely Delaney

Absolutely. And it's like that it is so it's so hard on your soul. It just is. It's like that it it it hell it hurts our ability to understand other people, to feel joy with other people, to ful feel joy at all. Because joy in itself doesn't come from just us ourselves.

Hello and welcome to another edition of the For the Love of Creatives podcast. I'd like to send a special shout out to our growing community of listeners in Cape Town, South Africa. And uh today your connections and community guy hosts are joined by Eli Delaney.

Eli Delaney.

Dramatic pause. Welcome, Eli.

I'm so glad I'm not the only one that has a brain fart.

I was like, I was waiting for you to say George. Just George. Well, thanks for having me come hang out with you guys today.

I appreciate it. Well for joining us. We're glad that you're here. Um, Eli, we we often t say to our guests that they can tell our listeners about who they are and and what they're about far better than we ever could. So if you would indulge us and just spend a couple of minutes to uh introduce yourself to the for the love of creative group, the uh yeah, for the love of creatives audience.

From Agency Owner To Email Strategist

See, that's why I made my podcast simple. It's meet cool people. That way I there's no way I'm gonna screw the words up on that one. It's you know, you gotta have fun with this stuff, really. Um, so my background, um there's so much to go along with that. Uh, I'm an email marketing strategist. That's my that's what I do for my business side. I help people basically I'm a ghostwriter. Uh so you want me to go ghostwrite your book? It ain't gonna happen, but you want to follow up with your your people, your prospects, your clients using email marketing. That's my that's my jam. That's what I have a lot of fun with. Been doing that for about 20 years now. Uh, my first company was Web and Graphic Design Agency, started that out of my office by or my dining room by myself, opened up an office. I had five employees, we're closing three to five contracts a week, just killing it. And then I realized I didn't like going to an office and I didn't like my employees either. So I burnt the whole thing down and started over. And that's kind of my background story with everything. Um, nowadays I it's it's so much fun. It's like I I just I talk to cool people, I get on podcasts, I speak. Um, I do a lot, I don't do as much traveling as I used to because this wonderful thing called Zoom got popular and I can speak to groups all over the world without having to actually like put on shoes, which is pretty amazing. Um, and so I do a lot of speaking the from a business standpoint. I have a lot of fun with it. I'm here in the DFW area, uh enjoying it, warming back up, which is wonderful. And yeah, that's kind of me in a nutshell.

Why Adults Must Talk To Strangers

And that's amazing. I I think that a lot of people are suffering from uh the the kinds of things that are your bread and butter. Like it's it's something that should come naturally. And I think at earlier times it was much easier for people to maintain warm connections.

Yeah, it's it's it's really, and I think a lot of this really hit hard um when COVID hit, when you know, when the plague came around and everybody hid in their houses and everything, they lost their ability to just simply communicate. And so many people have lost that from an aspect they don't know how to talk to strangers, which you know, as a kid, you're taught don't talk to strangers. As an adult, that is the worst piece of advice you could ever get. Because if you ever want to grow in any aspect of your life, you have to learn from other people. And the people, those are people that you don't know. And so that's kind of been my specialty. I I do a lot, I really study psychology, I have for many years. And when I got into it, it was because of the marketing side. It's like if you can understand human psychology, you can get to buy, get them to buy more stuff. And that's why I started with it, because I wanted my web design company to be more successful. But over the years, I realized that obviously, yes, I'm still in business. I still want to succeed from that standpoint, and I like making money. But if you can just understand how to communicate using all the tools and the technology and everything we have with people today, because we have such amazing tools, but learn to use them to truly communicate instead of just jumping with a jumping on a soapbox with a megaphone, it your life becomes so much easier. And you can attract some of the most amazing people who will want to see you succeed and they'll want to do business with you because they just want to be around you. You know, there's nothing better than somebody walking up to you and saying, Okay, tell me more about what it is you actually do, because I'm not sure I understand yet, but I really know I need to work with you.

Yeah.

I mean, I literally have people handing me a credit card before they understand what it is they're buying. And that's, you know, and I don't say that to be snarky. I say that because that's a good feeling to be able to have when you can have that much, you can build that much trust with a complete stranger where they want to do business with you. They trust you to help them before they actually even understand what it is they're buying. And when you can do that properly and still say, stay within, you know, within honest, honest and integrity of actually delivering on the stuff you're supposed to be delivering on, you you sit in a great place. And again, this this isn't just in business, this is in life, just communications with the people around you.

I agree. Boy, you're you're you're talking about something that is getting increasingly hard to do, though, you know, to just speak honestly and then follow up on what you said you do, because the world is so full of people now that say what they need to say to make the sale and then aren't there after they get the money, it's making it difficult for those of us that do it above the line.

Oh, yeah, it does. And it and it's hard, but here's here's the thing. I'm noticing a big difference. I've noticed this in just like the last six months that more and more people are they're become they're awakening to the charlatans much quicker. Um, sadly, that a lot of that comes to very strong skepticism, which does make it harder for those of us that are legit and do what we say we're gonna do. But that puts us in a position where if we can stay consistent, stay honest, stay loyal, stay in front of people on a consistent basis, just like, hey, you know what? No pressure. This is what I do. I know I can help you in this area. When you're ready, I'll be here. They'll remember that. And when you can add, excuse me, add value to them in between. So talk to them. And again, I use email as my primary tool, but like sending people resources, things that are going to help them succeed in their life, whether that be business or personal, again, it doesn't matter. Um, you know, recommend a book, recommend a podcast to listen to, uh, not yours, somebody else's, right? Listen to an article that you read, or maybe there's somebody that you've been that you've gotten learned so much from that's an influencer on social media, you can share that person out and just say, hey, you know what? This person has made a really big impact and helped me in these two areas. I thought they might be helpful for you too. And when you start doing that, you start staying top of mind. Right. And they start going, oh, he's here, he's really helpful. Not he's only helpful if I give him my credit card. There's a very different distinction right there. And and so when we can do that, what ends up happening is um the goofy guys that are out there lying through their teeth to try to make a sale, they can't sustain it. They always have to find new people because once you burn a bridge, you the bridge is burned, you can't go back. And so they're always having to search for new people where you're the one that at first, yeah, they got some walls up, but you're gonna take those walls down one brick at a time by just being nice, just being a good person. And eventually they're gonna open up the door to you when they're ready. And by that time, you've got 300 to 3,000 people that you've done that to because you've just been consistent over time and you stayed the path. When the other people are burning the bridges, these guys are opening the draw gates for you, right?

Creativity As Communication And Writing

And and they become your your biggest fans. Absolutely.

Eli you you clearly have passion for what you're talking about. Thank you. Would you say that this is uh the primary way that creativity shows up for you?

Absolutely, absolutely.

It's a this and the book, the writing.

Yeah, I love I love writing. Um, it's funny. I'd lost I'd lost my my mojo with writing for almost a decade, and then it came back. I started taking on a couple of clients where I was actually heavy ghostwriting for them, and they were just perfect clients. They loved what I did. I really got into it and had a blast. And I was like, I'm getting it back. I I remember why I do this. And then the idea for the book came out. And once I, you know, once I got going, I was like, yeah, this is this is it, this is what I need to be doing more of. So, yes, as a creative, um, writing is definitely one of them. But my my core creativity comes from communication. And some of that is in writing and some of that is in speaking, especially like when I can get on stage and share, share some nuggets of wisdom and stuff as well.

Tell us a little bit about how you landed on that. I mean, those early years, maybe when you were even a child, what was it that kind of drew you to that specific thing?

Um, I don't know what drew me to it, but it was something actually, it was entertaining because something my mom said um several years ago. I thought it was really funny. She's like, you know, you you just collect people. You always did it even as a kid. Like you, you know nobody, and next thing you know, you got 10 people, that 10 other kids hanging out with you. And I did it, I did it in high school. I've you know, I do it wherever I go in the business world. Um, my daughter is always embarrassed because we might go to a hockey game and like you have a hockey ring, there's 10,000 people in there, and I never fails. I've run into at least one or two people that I know. And she's like, I can't take you anywhere. Uh, you know, but um, but yeah, I I one of the things I love to do is I do I love to collect people and I always joke, it's not in a dexter kind of way. Um, but I it's like we just just talking to them and getting to know them and figuring out what is it that makes them tick and what is it that excites them and figuring out to me, it's kind of like a puzzle. What can I do to help them continue their journey, whatever that looks like? And sometimes it's an introduction, sometimes it's in a client scenario. There's a lot of different ways I do that. But for me, I I like to solve problems, and that's how I do it.

You you said something a minute ago that I want to comment on. You talked about being told as a child not to talk to strangers. I I never really put the two together because we all got told that when we were children. Oh, absolutely. And all of my life I have found it very difficult to talk to somebody I don't know. Now, in the in the past three and a half years that Dwight and I have been together, and the nature of the the projects and things we've taken on, um I've gotten mostly through that, but we we talk to strangers everywhere we go. We will stop people on the Katie Trail while we're walking and have an in-depth conversation with them. Okay. Or it doesn't matter where we are. We I on the street corner, uh, at the mall, it doesn't matter. Oh, yeah. We just talk to people, and you're right, it opens up doors in ways that you cannot even fathom until you start just talking to strangers. You do, you learn things culturally, you learn uh better communication skills, the you learn how to connect with people. It's it's um it's a necessary thing. Right. I had learned this when I was, you know, one school.

Introvert Friendly Networking Tactics

And see, that's the problem, is as kids, and it's it's there for a reason. Um, obviously, the talking to strangers, you know, is stranger danger, right? It's like a and I always say I'm like I'm like the worst poster child for the things we learned as kids because I will talk to every stranger I need to, right? Um, but the reality, as a kid, it is it is instilled in us um is a way to keep us safe. But as we get older and not even full-on adults, like junior high, high school, we need to have the whereabouts to know to be careful about our surroundings, obviously. But that doesn't serve us anymore. And I think that's one thing where as humans, humans, we need to know when to evolve. And that's a piece that so many people never do evolve because as you said, you you struggled with that for a long time and you've gotten better at it. And the beauty of it is that you if you could be conscious of it and say, okay, this isn't scary anymore. I can talk to somebody. I mean, talk to somebody in this in the line where you're getting your coffee, like just talk about what's going on, or this goofy barista that's doing something weird, whatever. And this doesn't matter what it is, but just think of something that can start a conversation, doesn't even have to go deep. It could be one line to make them laugh. That's it, that's all it is. Um, but once you start that, it opens up a lot of doors and you become more comfortable with it, but then people you get a confidence about you, and then people will start kind of being attracted to you. And you don't have to do the scary part, which is starting the conversation, they'll come to you. Um, you know, I did this, and it's so funny because I'm actually a very introverted person. Like, I don't act like it. People don't believe me until I actually tell them, no, I've actually studied the whole crop process. Like early on, before anybody did all the major studying about introvert and extrovert and all the personality weirdness we all have and everything. Um, I studied early on because I was like, this isn't working for me. I need to fix something. And I'm a natural introvert. Once I understood the difference between introvert and extrovert energy, I was like, okay, so how do I deal with it? And for me, that means I can do the thing that's scary. I can talk to somebody, I can walk into a room with a hundred people that I don't know, but I have certain quirks. And I always tell people, especially super introverts, I'm like, you'll notice if you if you see me in a room, I'm gonna be by the door. And if I can't be by the door, you're gonna have to see me with my back to the wall. So everybody's in front of me, so I can see everything. That is part of it's a quirk, but that is how it helps me get more comfortable. And I will know if if for some reason I start getting high anxiety and I get overwhelmed, which happens to introverts, I know to step outside for a minute. And that's one reason why being by the door is very convenient because then I'm not getting up in the middle of 500 people or whatever. Um, and these are little tweaks, little things like that. You know, if you're if you're if you're in a business scenario or in a situation where you know you have to network, the worst thing you can do is show up late. Show up early instead. Because when you show up early, you've got the host usually by themselves, maybe one or two other people. That's easy. A couple of people is easy to have a conversation with, and then as more people come in, it's kind of like the frog, frog in the bowl. You know, it's like we just like how do you boil a frog? You put them in the bowl and then you turn the heat up a little bit at a time, they don't notice it. Well, this is your brain doing the same silly thing. Yeah, your brain doesn't notice it as much if you take it in small chunks, and so these quirks are just things that you can learn to overcome these. I don't even know what they to me, they're still quirks. They're just what I do is I figure out like, okay, what can we do to overcome it and take it one piece at a time so we can overcome these weird quirks that we own that we have, because it is what it is, but don't let it hold you back.

Sure. You you just own your story. You you don't let it own you. Exactly.

Creatives Need Collaboration To Thrive

I think this is an important conversation because as creatives, our ability to create really does depend on our ability to collaborate. Some of the most fabulous things happen where there are two or more people working on a creative project. And if you can't talk to strangers, which is a lot of creatives because you the vast majority of them create in isolation.

Right.

I mean, we've had enough conversations to know this.

Yeah.

And uh what you're I just think this is a really important question. And what came to me as well is I've taken conscious action to overcome that. But I also know that if you don't do that as we age, it becomes even harder to talk to a stranger. Yes, this is why older people, I was reading a post on Facebook yesterday about somebody that said, Oh, I'm I'm 50 now and I I'm having so hard, what a hard time meeting people and making friends, and I'm my circle's getting smaller and smaller. And it's because of this right here.

In Person Energy Beats Zoom

Yeah. Well, and also, um, again, going back to what happened in 2020, everybody started becoming so isolated. And so now we spend so much time alone. Like even with me, I spend a lot of time on Zoom. I way too much time on Zoom having conversations with people literally all over the world. But I have to have face-to-face time. I have to be in a room with somebody, and I have to be able to like shake their hand, hug them, whatever our relationship is, right? Um, part of that is because, and this is a core piece that a lot of people don't actually realize um, is that energy has to move. Like energy, energy that sits still just basically dies. And so the energy that you get just from being next to somebody and having a conversation or shaking their hand or giving them a hug or whatever that is, that is an exchange of energy that creates movement and creates momentum. You can't create that on Zoom, it doesn't exist. It's a great second choice, but as a second choice, it's about 30% as good as in person. And so we need to get out and talk to people, and that's a human trait. And when we lose that, what ends up happening is we we become more introverted, we become more isolatic in the point where we just don't we don't do anything, and then we we don't understand how to talk to people, we lose our ability to just talk.

Many people lost their ability to just be around other people when they're exactly. I mean, we were locked in our house. I was locked in my house by myself. This is before we got together for two years. I was in this house by myself.

Yeah. Well, and you also look at um, you know, the younger generation who basically came into that watch of them. They don't know how to communicate at all. Like you can, I've literally sat there, and there's there's jokes on social media about us seeing two people sitting into a you know a restaurant or a cafe or whatever. And I've seen this happen literally, where they'll sit there for 45 minutes looking at their phone, not say a single word.

I've seen entire families do that.

Absolutely. And it's like that it is so it's so hard on your soul. It just is. It's like that, it it hell it hurts.

our ability to uh understand other people to feel joy uh with other people to ful feel joy at all because joy uh in itself doesn't come from uh just us ourselves joy comes from the world around us interaction yeah interaction is the key describing what you oh go ahead dwide what you're describing is the psychosocial manifestation of a principle in physics known as inertia it's newton's first law of motion yeah it that's it's that simple when you spoke about zoom not being as good and and I agree I had never really thought of it like this because I I survived on Zoom in those two years.

I I don't know that I would have lived through that if I hadn't had right a Zoom friends all over the country and world that I I talked to. But what came to my mind when you said this a minute ago about you know we need to be in person that energy exchange what came into my mind at that moment was it's the tactile part it's the handshake or it's the hug because human beings well and animals they they for survival they have to have touch yeah yeah there's been studies done where baby monkeys were not touched and they literally died.

Breaking Bread And Ditching The Phone

Yeah human beings are pack animals whether they act like it or whether they want to admit it or not we are and now you know as an introvert I know where my energy is and as an introvert I I give energy to others. So I it drains me to be in with a lot of other people but that doesn't mean it's a bad thing. It just means that I have to know where my limit is and then go away recharge and then I'm okay to come back again. And that's another thing with people is like if you just understand that know where your limits are and if you need to step away for a few minutes if you need to go back to a hotel room and just avoid the crowd for an hour that's okay. Give yourself that time but the the that energy exchange and especially that tactile touch makes such a difference that it that is what creates momentum in human energy as a whole. And so when you understand that and that's where like like for me I am huge my favorite thing in the world above everything else and actually I can even tell a story on this is uh 2019 I was when I was speaking a lot I'm traveling across the country and I was on a plane at least once a month if not two or three times. I go and I'm speaking and I have events everywhere from you know small ones that have 10 people to people that are like three or four hundred in a room. And I at one point I was in I was going to Miami pretty regularly and I'd go over there and I'd the at one point this the MC was going around to the attendees as a fairly small group he's like okay so who are you? How do you help your clients and what do you want to get out of the next three days and everybody does their thing. And then he hands the mic to the speakers and the speakers are all doing the hey this is me and this is the cool program that I have and I'm gonna talk about it. And and basically it's like a pre-pitch for when they get up on stage to pitch you and I was like you guys all suck. This is not cool. So when it came to me I was like okay here's the deal yes I am speaking I I'm gonna talk to you about some follow-up stuff because that's what I do. So be sure to show up for that tomorrow because I promise you I'm gonna share some cool stuff. Then I went then I'm that's it for that and I'm like reality is though at the time this is where I lived I'm like it's I live in Portland Oregon. We are in Miami Florida which is almost airport to airport as uh as far across the country as you can get we could go up to Seattle. I don't count Alaska um but that's as far as you could get and I literally travel across the country to yes speaking because I love doing it but I actually do this because I love to be around cool people. And so I do this so I get a chance to meet cool people and these rooms are where the cool people are. And the MC of the show took that and so when he started introducing me he introduced me as the guy who flies around the country to meet cool people. And it was so funny how that whole thing works. It's like now I have it the banner across my head I have these cool little wristbands, all kinds of fun stuff. But what I got known for in this process was even though I mean less again I'm there to speak that's what they bring me in for but I would start meeting people and I'm like hey I'm getting some people together for dinner. Why don't you come join us? And next thing I know we got 10 to 20 people that are all going out to dinner and we're finding some hole in the wall it's not expensive. It's not fancy it's just good comfortable environment that we can sit there and have a good meal. And I always found that breaking bread is the best way to get to know somebody. And so I I really got known for that. And to this day that is still my favorite thing to do is I might go to an event that has 50 people that we're all going to dinner afterwards. And that's my happy place. That's where I can literally sit back. I had this actually a few weeks back where I sat there and I just had that the most relaxed feeling like I was conscious of just how relaxed I was at that one moment. And there's eight people there and they're all having these different conversations and half of it they're talking a bunch of stuff that I have no clue what the hell it was. But the they're laughing and joking and just going off on it and just having the best time and I was like this is perfect peace for me. And that's when you can build that kind of relationship and do it with your family like put the phones away when you're sitting down talking to somebody that's one of the things with the Meet Cool People wristbands I always tell it put it you wear this on the band or on the hand that you hold your phone with as a reminder are you looking at your phone or are you paying attention the person that's sitting across from you because that's who you should be paying attention to. Put the damn phone down. And when you do that it the the conversations you'll find from people are completely different than what they post on social media and the the the two word emoji text things that they send and all that kind of BS.

With the things are outside of the the event programming and that whole thing about showing up early those are callbacks to a little bit of modern scripture that that Maddox and I really love. I I'm reminded of uh Keith Farrazi's never eat alone uh and I mean just the whole thing with showing up early he he presents it in a couple different ways one of them is at his first job is his dad told him to go to the golf course early and look at how the the grass is tended to and you know just learn stuff and you know just the whole thing about showing up and not having to make a big to-do to to be with people and it's like oh my goodness you are living that and that's amazing.

Well thank you I appreciate it and I I try I mean it's and it's I don't know it's just a to me it's a better way to be and the beauty of it is that if like in today's world and again I'll I'll go back from the business perspective of this because I am in business and most of the people that I hang out with are entrepreneurs they're all looking at how can you know how can I grow my business that that's simple question. Every single business in the world pretty much that's the question they always have and I'm like meet more cool people have better conversations.

Absolutely yeah the business should be second it should be always build relationships make great relationships with everybody that you come in contact with absolutely yeah I I I think it's a matter of the the filter that you view life through it it's a function of maturity as well because yeah I'm getting old so yeah I guess so I I think when people are young out the gate they just want to do something that they perceive as being the shortest route to to achieve an end result. And it's it's not their fault. It just they don't have the experience of being able to see things have a longer span and how things come back around. Right. And unfortunately I I think that we have too many of the messages about how there are bad people and there are strangers. And so we see people as uh threats, as something to be suspicious of and so we're wearing the dart glasses and it's not until we've lived enough to adopt a rosier vision of things where instead of seeing strangers, scammers, threats right we appreciate that every person is a potential uh well a a client, a prospect, or um a referral partner.

Yeah or a friend. Yeah or a friend. I mean it's and that's the thing is and a lot of it is so we have we have two pieces that you mentioned the like getting older and getting and you become more aware of these kind of things which is good. Age obviously helps because experience it's experience helps but also with everything especially the rise of social media which is probably the worst invention ever created uh because of the fact that it's got us closer than we ever were and yet it created a way to for us to uh separate ourselves even further and that's just not a good place to be in um but people look at and there's a couple of different things with this number one is they look at um what do I have to look like in order to be successful and so they're they're looking at somebody else's story and the reality is it's that's not even a real story because it's all fake BS. I mean we've already determined that like if you want to if I wanted to get pictures next to a Lamborghini on a private jet I could go pay somebody$2,000 and do it today. Like I could do that literally I could do that for$2K today um it doesn't mean anything. But people people look at that and they think oh well I have to do all these things to be successful. It's like no you don't you want to be successful impact more people like I always talk about the the the word influencer is one of my least favorite words in the world because it's been bastardized so hard. And the reality is is you want to become an influencer just influence people to do good things. That's it's it's if you're over if you do anything more than that you're trying too hard. Yeah and that's where that's where we get once we understand that it makes a difference. And then the maturity I think comes in for trust but verify is a is a is the most perfect way to do it as opposed to don't trust anybody which is where a lot of people have gone it's like trust but verify. But be prepared for the worst I always used to say I'm an optimistic pessimist. I'm pretty sure somebody's gonna screw something up you know but you know you just but you come with a place of of where can you where can you look for the best and help people see the best in themselves and going back to kind of where we went with all this stuff is be honest and stay with integrity for yourself. You know that's another thing is we we would have a whole lot less charlatans out there if people would just stop creating their truth quote unquote no the truth is the truth and just go with the truth. You know be honest be a real human being and treat people with respect.

You got that down but the rest of it's easy I think that you also have to approach all this with intention oh yeah I I know for me are you familiar with creative mornings? Yes two years ago I started attending creative mornings and the first couple of months I went by myself after that he started coming but it was a complete room of strangers I didn't know a soul and I'm quite uncomfortable in those places. Right and I went you know the first month it was like oh my god that was hard and then the second month oh my god that was still hard and the third month oh my god and finally about by month four or five I decided that I would pretend that I was part of creative mornings I mean I was I wanted to feel like part of it but I kind of didn't know anybody so I I was just felt like I was an isolated in a room full of people and so I pretended to be one of the volunteers okay I was not right but I went near the door and as new people came in I said welcome to creative mornings we're glad you're here okay that's awesome and I don't know what possessed me to do that but I knew that I had to do something and that just I I gave myself a role you know and I had and I needed to fulfill that role it's a responsibility you know and so I would greet people and then they would talk to me and the conversation would start and then I would introduce them to the next person that came in the door and very quickly it changed it changed like overnight like all of a sudden instead of feeling like the outsider that's been coming here for five months and still doesn't know anybody now I'm starting to know people and I feel like I'm part of something and it's been two years now and I've in two years I've only missed one meeting and that was because I was sick and just couldn't go.

Right. And I bet I bet you felt like you felt it in your heart. You felt so good about it and the experience and you felt helpful. So you know I mean maybe you weren't conscious of this at the at the time but you know I guarantee that at least 20% of the people in that room felt exactly the same way you did. They didn't know anybody they were kind of freaking out about the fact that they were doing this was really hard but they didn't admit it but the fact that you made them feel comfortable made them get over that and feel better and feel more welcome and feel more included. And now you made their day better and they had a better experience from it.

Becoming Someone Who Helps Others

Yep and and so when you can do that that's powerful you you know we talked earlier about yes it gets more challenging as you get older and you said and we become more aware as we get older but the thing is awareness alone by itself isn't it enough no you you have to take some sort of action yes yeah that's but for the person who says oh I'm 50 years old and it's getting really hard to meet people and make friends well nobody's gonna fix that for you but you right you know yeah if you never leave the house you're never that's not gonna ever change yeah yeah yeah you you have to take responsibility for your own experience and do something different than what you're currently doing which which brings us to a a big part of our conversation and that is becoming yeah you know who are you becoming who did you have to become to get to where you are where you are the meet cool people guy who did you have to become to be the author of a book that's getting ready to be released and and then the the you know the next part after that is and we know that what got you here won't get you there. So who do you have to become for the next stage?

Next stage um that's probably the hard one because I don't know what that looks like um but that's okay um the beauty of it is that I don't know what that looks like and I'm okay with that it's gonna when it happens it happens that's one thing about where I am in my life now is that I let things go knowing that I am taking action in the right direction of this the impact that I want to make but what that looks like at the end of the day I have no clue and I'm okay with it. But you just watch it unfold. Yeah I just watch it unfold um you know when you like a lot of times people talk about legacy and my legacy more than anything else I just want to know I want people to feel like I made their life better whatever that looks like for them for some people it's just a quick conversation of they were having a bad day and needed needed somebody to help them laugh for a second and sometimes I'm helping them with strategy for their for their business and they just landed a$5000 client. You know it's like I don't care what that looks like I just want to make sure that I am making every person I that I impact I want them to see that as a positive impact that I made their day better.

Well and Eli if you died today you would leave that legacy. Yeah at least I hope so through the people you've touched through the book yep you will leave that legacy but let's explore for a few minutes who you had to become to get where you are today.

Oh um that that inner part you know not what you had to do okay who you had to become in here okay so there's a there's a couple of this has been a really interesting journey um because some of it was natural like I said my mom was telling me that she was like used to just collect people all the time and I had no clue how or why because I was an outcast in the school that I went to um even you know as I got older my friends all came to my house to hang out you know when I'm a teenager 21 in that area I'm like everybody my house was the party house everybody came to us um so I kind of had a bunch of it natural but I also knew like especially when I got into business I knew that the introvert stuff wasn't working for me and I'm like okay so this is this is how I am but it isn't gonna work so what do I need to do to fix that and my brain does go to science and so I kind of started studying and there wasn't a whole lot of information about introvert versus extrovert energy and stuff back then but what I found made sense. And so that's how I got started with it. And then over time I got more intentional with it and I'm like okay this is what I'm looking for. This is the outcome that I want what are the actions I have to take to make that happen and I've told a lot of people over the years I'm like if you every conversation even just a random conversation over coffee or sitting down having dinner or something it sounds cold but it's not but everything I do is calculated my brain thinks about every word that I say before I say it and the reason for that is that I'm going you kind of think of you ever watched the Avengers the part where Doctor Strange went to like 5000 different outcomes to figure out which one was going to try to be the best one well my brain does that in an aspect is like okay what are the words that I need to say that are going to get the results that I'm looking for and I think about that in my head before I ever say it.

And I I have that same thing. Yeah very much that same thing it's all always like working.

Restarting Life Through Community Support

Yeah and the beauty of it it can it can hold some people back because then they overthink it and then they stutter when they actually go to talk because they they they couldn't decide fast enough. I I've done it enough that I know what I need to do but I'm always looking at okay who is this person what's going on and what can I say that's going to help them somehow I don't really matter it doesn't matter to me how it could be complimenting them on their hair it could be giving them a bit of advice it could be making them laugh when they look like they're grumpy. I don't I don't care what it is as long as I know it's going to make a positive impact on that on that person because I know I did my good that's what I'm after. And so I am very intentional about that. It is calculated and it took years of practice for me to get there. Now it's very natural it's obviously much easier for me to do and something that happened To me a few years back, my uh you know, 2019 best year ever, going crazy with business traveling around the world, 2020 world, we had the plague, shut everything down. Um, and I I mean I'm dealing with the business side as well, but you know, there are a lot of stuff other happen, a lot of other things happened, and I always tell people that COVID was the least of my problems. And I lost my confidence. And I was in a really, really dark place. And so I moved from Portland, Oregon to Dallas, Fort Worth area to basically restart life. And when I said restart life, it was restarting both personal and business by myself in a place where I didn't really know anybody. I had a couple of business people that I knew, but they were nowhere near close friends or anything. And I truthfully, I wasn't sure I was gonna make it. But what ended up happening was I got connected with a community of entrepreneurs here. And I just I was like, okay, I have to, I have to pay rent and I need to grow the business back up so I can pay the debt that I have. So that was my focus. And if I'm gonna do that, I have to get clients. Well, the best way to get clients is to get around other people. So I need to find get around other people, and they're entrepreneurs, and so I found an entrepreneur community to start hanging out with, and then I started building some friends, and I had people who helped me get through some of those rough times, and they were there to support me. And that's another reason why this is so, so critical that we are around other human beings, because especially when we are at our worst, we can't find the answer. Somebody else has to help us get to it. They may they may not be giving it to you, but they will guide you and help you in getting that answer because we can't do it by ourselves, especially it's like the there's the old joke of you can't see the label within the bottle.

Yes.

And um, and you and that's like way overused and it drives me nuts most of the time, but it's very appropriate in this kind of situation because when, especially when we're wallowing in our stuff, and we don't know what the answer is, like, okay, well, you know, this fell apart, that fell apart, this fell apart, that fell apart, and you just like, I don't even know what to do anymore. Sometimes just talking to somebody else helps us find that spark. And sometimes they're like, Hey, I got an idea for you. Would this help? And you know, you don't know what it's gonna look like, but having somebody else there is gonna make a difference. So finding that community of some sort, find your people, and those people need to be people that are there to support you and bring you up, not to sympathize with you. There's a big difference. Yeah, like they'll, you know, people some people can be there to just, you know, there are like some people and family members tend to be the biggest with that. They're there to support you, but they support you in a way of letting you letting you talk about your misery, and they may co-miserize with you, and that's not what you actually need. What you need is somebody who's gonna help pull you up and say, Okay, yeah, this stuff sucks. What can we do to fix it? And it's what can we do? Not what can I do? What can we do to fix it? And that's, I mean, I am I am a thousand times in a much better place than I was three years ago. And like I said, I mean, I've now my my business is doing very well right now. I wrote the book, um, which I didn't even have, you know, when I moved here three years ago, I had no concept of actually wanting to write a book again.

You're you're talking about leveraging the power of community.

Absolutely.

Absolutely beyond me when when people choose not to do that because community is everywhere.

Yeah. And we need community. The key is finding the right community. Find the people that bring you up. They're not commiserating with you.

That's not always easy to do.

No, it's not. That is a much more difficult ask, but it is a such a critical difference.

Finding Your Tribe After The Pandemic

I I think I searched for my people most of my life, and I think Dwight would probably just say the same thing. And there were pockets of it here and there, but we didn't really feel like we found like our tribe until a little less than three years ago. We were hosting after the pandemic, we were uh really aware that you know like community had disappeared. So we started hosting small events to expand our circle, make some new friends. And it was the summer of 23 when we co-hosted with two people who happened to be artists, okay, and they invited all of their art friends, and that night there was a magic in the room that hadn't been in the room in any of our gatherings. There had been magic, but this was a different breed of magic, right? And and at some point through the evening, or shortly there after it was over, we looked at each other and we were like, Oh my god, this is it. This is it, these are our people, yeah. And and now everything we do has something to do with art or creativity or people that that it's a big part of their existence.

Yeah. Well, and that's the the fun thing about it is like when you find your people, you find your people, like you know it's a difference, and a lot of times you'll be in a room and you're like, okay, yeah, these are my people, and then but it's not really there. And then when you find the right ones, you're like, Oh, this is what I was looking for. Okay, you know, I mean, it's a light bulb moment, and you know, you talk about creativity, is and this is something I think a lot of people need to realize is that creativity comes in a lot of different forms, and you know, and art comes in a lot of forms. Like, I it's so funny. I had a client actually when I when I gave him the stuff that when we were reviewing the the stuff that I wrote for him, he's like when we were talking, obviously I knew you were good at what you do, but I didn't realize how much of an art it is that you do. And now I get it, and wow, and I'm like, cool, I like it, and you know, um, so everybody's got their their thing, and and that's where when you find the right people, everybody respects that. It doesn't matter what kind of creativity, what kind of art they're doing, it's like you respect it. It may not be what I do, and I may not do what you do, but we respect each other for what we are and how we express ourselves and how we add value to the world. Because you know, when it comes to art and creativity, I'm a big fan that the whole purpose of that is to add something of value to the world.

Yes.

And when you can do that, you win. That's it, that's it, that's the goal.

And you're right, it can come in any form.

Absolutely.

Creativity is physically making something, but creativity comes into ideas that change our world.

Respect And Kindness As Core Values

Yeah, I mean, you've got everything you from comedians to movies to actors to artists, which there's you know a billion different types of art that's out there, and everything is different. And the cool thing is that when we can come to a place of this is cool, and I and I respect your art, your creativity, even if I don't, I may not like it and I may not enjoy it, but I can respect it, that's a great conversation because you can be like, Yeah, I don't get it, but good for you. And that's a whole when you when you can come at that with other people, and everybody is that way, the amount of respect that goes around is so much powerful. And I'm uh like respect, respect and kindness are my two core values, and that is when you can hit those, everything else in the in the world becomes better. I mean, it really truly is that simple. If you can be kind to the people around you and show respect, even if you don't agree or don't like somebody, just show basic respect. When you can do that, that would that would solve 90% of the problems of the world right there.

Yes. Yeah, it would I I've been saying for over a year now that I believe that the creative community are the people who may not do it, but they're the community that has the power to heal humanity.

Yeah, I don't disagree.

Well, this has been a fabulous and far-ranging conversation, and what I love is how you've you've exercised such humility. You you've mentioned the book a couple of times, but what's the name of the book?

The Follow Up Code And Bushido

Uh yeah. So the book, I mean, literally, like for anybody watching the video or watching hearing the audio part, the book is like right here in my hand because this is my proof copy. I just got it. Um, but this is the follow-up code. And it's the subtitle is Seven Virtues to Building Trust Through Email. Um, like I said, as an email marketing guide, this is where I come from. But it's all about how do we reframe how we use it? Because just like any medium, especially for marketers, we we just bastardize it and ruin everything. And so, email, most people are like, you go to Amazon and look for books, most email marketing books are going to be on like, how do I write my million-dollar subject line? Uh, which we all know is BS. And I this is a very different take. It really does go into a really fun mix because um, so I talk about my core values being kindness and respect. And those are two of the seven virtues of Bushido, which Bushido is the code of the samurai. And I've been studying that over the last few years. Uh, when all, for lack of a better term, all hell broke loose in 2020 and my world fell apart. It helped me get through a lot of really rough parts. And so I learned the basics of it. And it's and it and the virtues are all about how do you how do you be a better human being, which are integrity and honesty and kindness and respect and all that kind of stuff that we should be doing day to day anyway. Uh sadly, many have missed. But um, when I decided to write this book, a lot of I had people ask me, it's like, okay, so what's which of your books is on email marketing? I'm like, well, no, I wrote two books in 2013, but neither one of them is on email. They're like, Aren't you the email guy? I'm like, yeah. They're like, uh, you should probably have a book on email. It's like, yeah, I suppose. And then I was like, okay, I suppose I should write this thing. And then I was like, but wait a minute, how do I mix this with the Bushido stuff? Because it is very appropriate. And so everything is based around how do you treat the people on your list? Like, if you're in business in any aspect, and you know, if you're an artist, you should still be building a list, build an email list because you can communicate with people and then you can say, Hey, I have cool stuff, you should buy it. You know, that's it's pretty straightforward. Um, but most people treat email like a megaphone. And how do you, you know, there it's always about the pitch and all the cool stuff that I'm doing and how what awards I've gotten, and blah, blah, blah. And oh, by the way, I gotta buy one, get one free, or whatever. And that works if you're in a consumer market where people are just addicted to sales, like they want to they want a discount on something. That's why Amazon and Best Buys do so well. But for a lot of us, it is it goes back to we want to build a relationship to build that no like and trust. And that takes a whole different conversation. And so I incorporated the seven virtues of Bushido into basically the seven virtues of email marketing, and that's kind of where the idea came from. And that's that's where the follow-up code came to be.

So, Eli, I can guarantee you, as soon as that book hits Amazon, Dwight will have it in hand.

Awesome. I appreciate it.

He reads anytime anybody mentions a book, maybe it's not even their book, he just mentioned a book. He has purchased it and is reading it before bedtime that day. Nice.

Well, there are so many ways that that book, your approach to what you're talking about appeals to me on many different levels.

Yes. Did you see his head going like this the whole time I've been telling about?

I did notice that, yes. Yeah, well, good. I I'm I'm glad and I look forward to getting a copy of it because I'm I'm very proud of it. I've had a I had a few early readers go through it and they're just like, number one, this is absolutely not what I expected. This is so much better. And yeah, this is exactly the stuff you talk about all the time. Like, well, that's kind of the point. You know, it's like, because this, I mean, just like our our entire conversation today is is in is rooted in the same conversation in the book. The only difference is the book is about how do you how do you use that stuff to email the people on your list? How do you communicate more effectively to build no-like trust and loyalty?

Yeah, I I've been a networker for many, many years, ran networking groups uh 20 years ago, and um I am a firm believer in the no-like and trust.

Yeah.

I really have to. I stopped networking because I realized how transactional most of that is. And I didn't, in fact, I always Dwight and I always say we don't say the N-word in our house. And everybody's eyes gets really big, and then we go networking, and then they burst into laughter.

Yeah. You, and that's one thing I I'm I'm lucky in the fact that I the community that I had mentioned earlier that I got involved with, they are a business-to-business networking organization, and they are very strong in the relationship side. Like the you are taught you're not coming here to find clients, you're coming here to find referral partners who will introduce you to your clients.

Are we talking B and I?

Absolutely not. No, uh, this is Success Champions. They're they're based out of the DFW area, but we've got chapters all all over and outside of the US now, which is pretty cool.

That's cool.

Relationship First Networking That Works

Yeah, and I think there are 400 plus members right now. I don't remember what the exact number is, but it's over 400. And I I recently just took over as president of my chapter, and I'm still trying to figure out if I really wanted to put in that much work, but it's all good. Um, but it is it's it's purely a how can we introduce you to people that are the right people that would be a good synergy partner for you.

And it's not it is a very tracking leads and all that kind of stuff.

Yeah, like I mean, any tracking we do, we are very big on. We we want you to give us the numbers because we want to make sure that the work, the work is happening, but we're not gonna come back and say, hey, you didn't give enough leads this week or any of that kind of stuff. Um, because that's where a lot of people get sucked into not being happy about it. Or you find a lot of people that are doing that, you know, drive-by networking that you that we're all familiar with. It's like, hey, here's my business card, call me when you need this. And it's like, no, I don't even know you yet, dude. You know, exactly. And you know, I mean, this was I get on calls and I got on a call with somebody just yesterday, and be out, I think probably within the hour, I had three introductions that he had made on LinkedIn to for other people to me. And that's and that's normal. That's great. That's normal. I mean, I think I've given out 10 different different introductions just this week.

Well, if we're if we're doing it right, we're farming, and and most people when they're doing it, they're hunting. Exactly.

Yeah, I have a whole I have a whole talk I do on the hunting versus farming mentality. Yeah, it's a whole different game.

It's well, it's great to hear uh about that experience that you've had with it. I I was uh reached well, Donnie Bulveen. I'm butchering his name. I know. No, that's that's it's it's Bullveen. Okay. Well, he he had reached out to me before. And you know, it's it's one of those things. This this is this illustrates the point exactly. We're so trained to exercise extreme caution that you know I'm probably more receptive to to look deeper into it, knowing that you've had the positive experience.

Invitation And Closing Notes

Oh yeah. Well, why don't you and why don't you come hang out with us next Wednesday? Like our our group, my group is on Wednesdays, 10 o'clock at Central. Come, uh, I'll get you the link. Come hang out with me if you like it. Cool. If you don't, that's okay too. But you know, and and yeah, definitely come talk to me about it because Donnie's Donnie's a bull. He's like a bull in a China shop. And I love Donnie to death. He is he is he's the founder, by the way. He is the founder of Success Champions. Uh, but you know, that's one thing is like I tell people is like, come check it out. We trust me when I say we do it different. It's not what you're used to. And I mean, I had this week, I I was the guest speaker for our group because I realized in three years, my group has never seen my own presentation. I have a presentation that I do for other chapters, but I had never gotten invitation for my own group. And so I just did that. And we had 25 people in the room. A good portion of them were uh guests and guests from other chapters who would come to check it out. And I cannot count the number of people who came back to me after afterwards thanking me for inviting them to come hang out. Like, and that's good, that's a good feeling. And I don't say that to brag, I say that because it's a different experience, and that's what that's what we want, that's what other people are looking for. And so it is a lot of fun, it's a good group, and we we are there to truly help each other, not hunt each other. You know, business still happens. I get a lot of business out of the group, but you know, you you you can't go hunting your own people, it just doesn't work.

Yeah, not not too good a thing to do. There's a word for that, it's called cannibalism.

Exactly. Yes, yep. Well, and on that lovely note, that kind of way weird side.

I want to say to our listeners out there, just just but do don't want to leave any stones unturned. There will be a link in the show notes to Eli's book. So check it out.

Oh well, thank you guys. I appreciate that.

It's been uh a great conversation, Eli. Thank you for joining us. We've really enjoyed this.

This is fabulous. It's my pleasure.