#047: Hara Allison Chose Art Over Chemo And Found Peace

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Um I mean, I'm not actively dying, but I do have incurable cancer, and I have chosen not to do chemo again because it kind of stole a year from me.

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And with incurable cancer, it'll just be like, that doesn't sound like a good idea to do it again and again and again and again.

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Lose years when I could, I'm already 57, I only have so many left.

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So I'm just gonna live out loud and and make art.

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This is what I wrote the other day.

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I had a I had the creative meetup here, and we had to write our dreams up on the board.

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And all I wrote was make love and make art.

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So if I die doing those two things, I'll be good.

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I have had the love of my life.

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I have the love of my life.

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I am so lucky.

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I was miserably miserable in love for 45 years, and then I met my husband.

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Hello, it's Maddox and Dwight, and you're listening to another episode of For the Love of Creatives podcast.

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Welcome, and today our guest is Hara Allison.

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Welcome, Hara.

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Thank you.

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Hello, I'm Hara Allison, and I am a graphic designer for 30 some years and a photographer, and I also own a photography studio that is kind of a dream come true.

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It's pretty great in here.

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Well, and isn't it called Dream Studio?

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It's called Dream Studio, but I wanted to call it Impossible Dream, but had a little negative.

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But do you know from Man of La Mancha, The Impossible Dream?

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Oh, yeah.

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Well, Don Quixote's my guy.

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I've loved that.

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I have Dulcinea and The Impossible Dream tattooed on me.

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I just, I really um I love that story.

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The more I know it, the more I get out of it.

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Anyway, Impossible Dream is really where it came from, but Dream Studio seemed more upbeat.

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But I do think we all fight the impossible dream.

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Yes, we do.

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We absolutely do.

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Well, just to let our listeners know, um, Hara and I have known each other for I don't know, probably maybe four years.

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Um if I remember correctly, I found your podcast on I guess it was probably Apple Apple Podcasts and started listening.

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And I think I reached out to you and said I think somebody recommended you.

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Oh Tevi?

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Do you know Tebby?

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That doesn't really matter.

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I think um I think you were recommended, and I remember you saying that you didn't think your story was worthy.

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Do you remember that?

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I don't.

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So I don't know.

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I remember that.

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Oh, that sounds like pneumatics.

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Um I remember that because you're the only person who's ever said that to me.

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And it stuck with me because I think everybody's story, I think everybody's worthy, period, end of.

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So it really stuck with me because I don't think you need to have any kind of anything to be worthy of.

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You know, I I I can think that maybe I thought, why would my story be interesting?

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You know, it's just a typical kid gets bullied at school story and spends his entire life trying to overcome all the trauma of that.

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You know, it's like everybody's got a similar story.

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Well, no.

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No.

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Um, and also everybody's story helps everybody else.

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And so it just stuck with me.

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I I certainly, after all that we've done with my my podcast and now this one, I see that clearly now.

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But I think when I was on your podcast, I don't think I had even launched my podcast yet.

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I think it was I was pre-host for me.

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Um, so I see it very, very differently now.

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Because somebody said yesterday, I said you should launch a podcast.

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And he said, uh, for the life of me, I can't imagine why anybody would want to listen to what I have to say.

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And I said, Are you kidding me?

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So I think that's kind of universal sometimes, you know.

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Oh, yeah, yeah.

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You know, we're too close to our own story.

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So it's it seems like it seems very mundane to us, but you know, it's we we're our own unique fingerprint.

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We are the the only ones who get to ride this the way that we experience it.

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Yeah, for sure.

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And being able the reason I used to do that podcast and that magazine, Beneath Your Beautiful, was just hearing somebody rising above the things they've gone through can help somebody else.

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And that's why that was so important to me, because it's easy to get stuck when really it's our choice to be stuck, even though it doesn't feel like it.

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Oh, that that begs a question.

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I I'm really curious about the timing because I I know a little bit about your story, and just knowing how um knowing the the major beats, like how as a young girl, you had an an interest in photography, you pursued it actively, you had your own dark room, you saved all your money from your job at the great American chocolate chip company to go and and make uh make everything happen with photography, but you gave it up as soon as you crossed that threshold into adulthood and practical and and doing all that.

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So if I'm hearing the timing right, this is after you started to introduce photography seriously in your life again.

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Um yes.

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What happened was, well, yes, I'll give you a little uh try to do it quickly.

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Um okay, we've got time.

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Oh, okay.

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When I was five and seven, I was touched inappropriately when I was younger.

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And um, well, that's okay.

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I mean, now definitely it's okay.

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Um, but nobody talked about it, even though it was known in my family.

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And at 50 years old, I went to a trauma counselor because a nutritionist sent me there.

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And I was like, you know, I don't have nothing's wrong, you know.

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But my brother had died of a drug overdose.

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My mom died when I was only 18, she was just 46.

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Um, I had a lot of trauma growing up, and I really was a uh a tumbleweed in life.

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I didn't know I had um to take responsibility for all the choices I made.

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I felt like life was happening to me instead of I was responsible.

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And and I finally talked about the trauma, and I finally took responsibility for all the things, and it changed my life.

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And I learned to love me in this body with this whatever cleverness I have or don't have.

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And it was that was that's my mission.

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It's not really photography or graphic design or any of this.

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The mission is to help other people not waste any time buried in their trauma and thinking that they can't that they can't rise above it.

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The word is rise above because we can all have gone through hard things, but we don't have to stay there.

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And so once I realized it, that's really what I just hope for everybody.

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So I don't know what your even question was.

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No, that's no, I it's it's incredible.

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Absolutely beautiful, so well said.

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Yeah, that's the that's the passion behind everything I do, and the passion behind trying to build a community in the arts.

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Because for me, well, I got diagnosed with marginal zone lymphoma last year, and it's an incurable cancer.

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And from last April through this February, even, I couldn't get off the couch.

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I was just, I lost a year.

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And I decided, you know, the only way to get me out of the house is to make art, is to have a studio to bring people together.

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And art really does, I think, I mean, it's keeping me alive.

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I I have the most loving husband and lovely children and siblings, but it's just not enough.

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I think art is what makes my my pulse go, you know, it's what um really just keeps me going.

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And so, so I'm trying to build a community of like-minded people, but it's not easy.

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And I'm very curious how your community building is going.

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Um, it's not easy.

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Yeah.

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It's not easy to, you know, we live in a world that's so distracted now, and screens and the busyness epidemic, and it's hard to get people to show up for events.

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Um sometimes we do, sometimes we don't.

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Um it is a challenging time.

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Well, while it is challenging, the things that you can see right away are the things that feed into our own negativity biases.

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And we are reminded at those times that when we're not even looking for it, that we have an effect, that there is a lasting, outstretching ripple that uh has um it has a a lasting um well, just a lasting effect with those that we touched.

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And there are those in our camp that would do anything for us.

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They're they're willing to show up for everything.

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And I I've I have found that it's in those moments when we feel the most despair, when we feel like everything that we're doing is falling on deaf ears, uh, we're surprised by those people who are willing to to show up and say, you know, pick me.

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I I want to take part.

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What can we do next?

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It's fascinating, actually, the people that are sort of on your periphery even, not your not your besties.

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So it's very interesting who does want to come help and and be a part of it.

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I love I have loved that part of this, finding out who who the dreamers are, you know.

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Yes.

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Yes.

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Yeah, but it it can be lonely when we're when you're in the trenches.

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I have I think my life's work is to to really acknowledge what's meant for me is for me.

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Those that don't love me, don't love me.

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And that's let them, let them not like me if they don't.

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Boy, that is like uh if I have any work to do, which I have plenty of work to do, but the I think the strongest calling I feel right now is get the little little Hara inside me um parented better because she's so insecure.

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And, you know, see me, love me.

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And you know, the 57-year-old woman's like, it's okay, you are loved.

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But boy, it's a battle.

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That that's something I speak about really frequently because I struggled with that for for many, many years.

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And it it finally, I finally had that aha moment where I realized that when I stopped trying to fit in, you know, because to fit in, you have to carve parts of yourself away, like the square peg going into a round hole.

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I stopped trying to fit in and just started focusing on being just who exactly who I was.

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And what I found is that really that's a polarizer.

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It it sends people either screaming and running or they want to come and sit right next to me.

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And when I realized that most of the time the people that screamed and ran were the people that I wouldn't have wanted to have in my space anyway.

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And the people that wanted to come and sit right next to me, for the most part, were the people that I was so excited to have them come and sit right next to me.

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And and it's it was just such a game changer for me.

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It helped me guide the little boy inside of me.

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I did a lot of um inner child work to just really play and to be that little boy and to focus on the people that that showed up and wanted to play with that little boy and to bless and release the rest.

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You know, Dwight was telling me earlier today, we he posted some video footage of me captured in one of our episodes, whereas I was on one of my little rants, and I was talking about this very thing, about the polarizing effects of authenticity.

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And he said, Well, it's gotten two reactions so far, one thumbs up and one thumbs down.

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And I said, Did the thumbs down make a comment?

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Because curiosity is killing me.

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I'd love to know.

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It didn't faze me even a little bit that I got a thumbs down.

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Probably not my person, but would still have loved to have just been a fly on the wall to know exactly, you know, what that was about.

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Well, intellectually, I hear you.

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I mean, my brain hears you, and my 57-year-old woman sitting in front of you hears you, and the little girl inside me is like, but and stomping her foot.

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And I'm getting there because I'm very aware of it.

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So that's very helpful.

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And I definitely need some inner child work.

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Somebody just recommended a book to me, but anyway, I gotta start, I gotta start playing more.

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Are you familiar with mirror work?

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Mm-mm.

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Well, I mean, will you just talk to yourself in the mirror?

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I don't know.

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Yeah, you know, I I will pile.

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I still do this.

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I've done this for decades.

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I learned mirror work from Louise Hay way back in like the 80s.

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I'll pile up in my bed with a hand mirror that I have saved from my days as a salon owner and hold it pretty close to my face.

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And for a period, I'll just stare into my own eyes.

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Complete silence, just connecting with myself.

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And then I'll say whatever I want to say, but I always make sure it's very loving and very affirming.

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All the things that the little seven-year-old inside of me needs to hear, it has been single-handedly probably the best out of all the books, all of the therapy sessions, all of the workshops, the mirror work has been the thing that I continue to do.

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The mirror stays between the bed and the nightstand right there.

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So I have easy access to it because it's such an important thing to connect with myself and and just yeah, you know, give myself the same thing I would give Dwight because I love him, or one of my close friends because I love them, which is my time and my attention.

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Right.

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It's just really it's really powerful, but it's really simple.

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That's what I love about it.

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Herod, do you have any little children in in your life?

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Um, my daughters just are just turned 30 and 26, and they are the reason I learned to love myself.

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About a decade ago, I heard my daughter when she was about 20 say she hated her body.

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And I was unlike I couldn't believe it.

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She was perfect, you know, she's my baby.

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And I realized at the time she was mimicking me.

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And I thought, well, what if she's perfect because she's my baby?

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Well, I was somebody's baby too once.

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And so then I must be perfect.

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And I started talking to myself.

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I I really, I really, that was the first time I could even say young Hara or little Hara without rolling my eyes at myself.

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Um, like because I'm the youngest of six kids, for some reason I imagine them being like, oh, you know, needy little Hara.

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But but little Hara is very needy, and and I'm giving her all the things she needs now.

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So I am very in tune with this little girl, and I talk to myself just so, just like I talk to my kids.

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You're perfect, good try, you know, I love you.

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I really do.

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At first it was weird, and now it's just that's how I speak to myself.

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That is what I want for others.

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Um, so having that's what I always I'm I'm saying that because I always ask somebody, if you have little kids, then you'll know how to love yourself.

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Yeah because because if you can just imagine how you love your child, how you're just somebody's child.

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It is so simple.

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It is so simple.

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It's amazing to me how many people say, I don't and I don't know how to do that.

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How do I do that?

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And I just say, just think of the little child that lives inside of you like a real physical child that you have, that you are completely responsible for their every need.

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Yeah, every need from physical food, water, shelter to emotional needs to all needs, and just give them what you would give a real child.

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It's not rocket science.

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Yeah.

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Um, yeah, I don't know why it is so hard to love ourselves.

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I I've gained so much the chemo, I gained 30 pounds with the chemo, but that does not, after so long, I know that it does not define who I am.

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It has nothing to do with who I am.

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Um, I know my worth period.

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It does, it's not based on anything that I ever thought it used to be based on.

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There's no, I am worthy because I'm just worthy because I'm, you know, I'm alive, I'm a person.

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Those are the things I wish, I wish my even my children knew, but hopefully I'm now teaching them that instead of I hate my body because it's not whatever size I think it's supposed to be.

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Teaching it and modeling it for.

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Modeling it, definitely.

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Yes.

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And so many others need to hear it.

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So you you said earlier, you know, this isn't really about photography or you named a couple of other things, you know, it is really about bringing people together.

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But it seems that everything you've done has been rooted in some form of creativity.

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Yeah.

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How can I come to you?

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I mean, would you I've been a my mom was a fine artist, and um, so I guess it's just in me, but um, I went through college and got a degree in advertising, so I've always been in the creative industry.

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I was a graphic designer, I am a graphic designer for since 1990.

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And um you're this the what you were saying about my photography is when I was in high school, even younger, I always had a camera.

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And I went to I went through college and I got a degree in advertising and communications, but I still loved photography.

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And I went to an ad agency in Miami.

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I mean, um, a photo studio in Miami.

00:20:08.720 --> 00:20:22.000
I was already working at an ad agency, and I was gonna give it all up and they were gonna take me on as an apprentice, and I was so intimidated by lighting that I just didn't do it.

00:20:23.200 --> 00:20:45.599
And then and then at 50 I talked about my my childhood sexual abuse, and then I went to a conference it's so funny that a conference can do this, but they the whole weekend they kept talking about whatever you feel called about, you're you have to do it.

00:20:45.759 --> 00:20:51.920
Like it's you're doing God gave you that on purpose, whatever that is calling you.

00:20:52.480 --> 00:21:00.720
And that very next weekend, I started taking pictures of this woman because she kept saying how she kept complaining about herself the whole time.

00:21:00.960 --> 00:21:04.720
I was with her, and I was like, oh my God, I see your beauty and you don't see it.

00:21:04.799 --> 00:21:06.799
Can I take pictures of you with my iPhone?

00:21:07.039 --> 00:21:08.960
And that sparked photography again.

00:21:09.039 --> 00:21:16.960
I I took pictures of like, I don't know, eight people before I bought a real camera again, of just to show them how beautiful they are.

00:21:17.200 --> 00:21:32.160
So I think that's what I bring to it through my art, is I just want you to be seen because I think as the youngest of six, I don't think I talked till I was 15 because my sister talked for me.

00:21:32.880 --> 00:21:34.960
I definitely was invisible.

00:21:35.440 --> 00:21:40.000
I have been up to been up to a bar counter and been invisible.

00:21:42.160 --> 00:22:00.720
And you know, like I can so I think that's the passion, is I want you to feel seen and heard, and that's why the podcast, that's why the photography I just if I can give anything back, that's what I'm giving, and also I get a lot out of it.

00:22:01.279 --> 00:22:08.319
Um, I really enjoy holding space, and I I shockingly am good at it.

00:22:08.559 --> 00:22:13.279
I say shockingly because I just the younger me can't believe that I do this.

00:22:13.680 --> 00:22:16.720
You are you are good for that, and we have that in common, you know.

00:22:16.799 --> 00:22:18.720
As I listen to you talk, I think about that.

00:22:18.799 --> 00:22:28.799
Was my whole reason for getting into the beauty industry was to help people just see how beautiful they really are.

00:22:30.079 --> 00:22:36.240
Yeah, is it it's almost like a crime to not love yourself and to go through life.

00:22:36.400 --> 00:22:41.839
Can you imagine somebody on your deathbed going, oh, that was a really nice person, but they should have lost 10 pounds.

00:22:41.920 --> 00:22:47.680
Nobody's ever gonna say that, nobody's ever gonna think anything, all the things we're worried about, nobody else is caring.

00:22:47.920 --> 00:22:48.480
That's right.

00:22:49.279 --> 00:22:55.279
I mean, the size of my ass does not dictate whether my husband likes me or not.

00:22:55.359 --> 00:22:56.480
So it doesn't matter.

00:22:56.640 --> 00:22:58.880
At this weight, I'm having plenty of fun.

00:23:00.000 --> 00:23:00.799
There you go.

00:23:01.039 --> 00:23:01.680
Yeah.

00:23:02.319 --> 00:23:12.640
Yeah, it's it's sad that there's such a machine that's in place to keep us imprisoned in um so many things that just don't matter.

00:23:12.799 --> 00:23:15.200
I mean, you you've seen it from the inside.

00:23:15.440 --> 00:23:16.559
Yeah, yeah.

00:23:16.960 --> 00:23:19.680
Yeah, I I once didn't go into an event.

00:23:19.759 --> 00:23:21.920
I was all dressed up, I was sitting in the parking lot.

00:23:22.079 --> 00:23:26.480
And this was, I mean, probably well, a lot of pounds ago.

00:23:26.640 --> 00:23:28.720
I mean, probably 70 pounds ago.

00:23:28.960 --> 00:23:31.119
I didn't go into the event because I felt fat.

00:23:32.160 --> 00:23:33.759
I mean, what a crime.

00:23:34.079 --> 00:23:39.680
How I mean, no, if I walked into that event, I can't imagine one person thinking, oh, there's Hara, but she's fat.

00:23:39.920 --> 00:23:42.799
It's so crazy what what we do to ourselves.

00:23:43.119 --> 00:23:51.359
And so I just don't want to waste another second not thinking I'm all that because I'm the only me, too.

00:23:51.440 --> 00:23:54.240
Like I know I'm cool just because I exist.

00:23:54.400 --> 00:23:58.000
Like there's I bring something, I have a voice that nobody else has.

00:23:58.160 --> 00:24:06.720
That doesn't mean that somebody can't duplicate it or I'm just saying there's something special about me, as is there is about everyone.

00:24:07.039 --> 00:24:07.599
Yes.

00:24:07.839 --> 00:24:08.480
Yes.

00:24:08.720 --> 00:24:11.680
Ah, I you you're just yeah.

00:24:12.720 --> 00:24:14.319
Pouring out beautiful words.

00:24:14.400 --> 00:24:16.160
I love everything you're saying.

00:24:16.480 --> 00:24:19.200
And it is the epitome of who you are.

00:24:19.359 --> 00:24:28.160
You know, I've just been around you enough, and I'm just such a good judge of character and and intuition and feel into people's hearts.

00:24:28.319 --> 00:24:31.119
I know beyond a shadow of a doubt, that's exactly who you are.

00:24:31.440 --> 00:24:32.240
Oh, thank you.

00:24:32.480 --> 00:24:34.240
I feel is that like when a dog likes you?

00:24:34.480 --> 00:24:37.920
I do, you know, it's reflected in your podcast.

00:24:38.160 --> 00:24:42.000
And now all the I, you know, I see some of the photos you take.

00:24:42.079 --> 00:24:43.839
I don't see all of them, but I see some of them.

00:24:43.920 --> 00:24:51.119
And and and it's all about just really bringing beauty into the forefront where people notice it.

00:24:51.279 --> 00:24:58.559
It's all around, but bringing it up where people notice it, and that's that's just amazing.

00:24:58.799 --> 00:25:08.240
Tell us a little bit more about the because it's it's been a a year ago or a little more than a year ago that you launched Dream Studio.

00:25:08.559 --> 00:25:12.079
Dream Studio just opened in April of this year.

00:25:12.400 --> 00:25:12.720
Okay.

00:25:13.440 --> 00:25:14.640
I'm off on time just a little bit.

00:25:14.880 --> 00:25:15.359
Well, that's okay.

00:25:15.440 --> 00:25:20.000
Last year I got diagnosed with the cancer, and so I kind of lost that whole year.

00:25:20.559 --> 00:25:22.480
But in April we opened.

00:25:22.640 --> 00:25:24.319
So it hasn't been that long though.

00:25:24.480 --> 00:25:29.119
I'm an impatient person and I want I want all the things right this second.

00:25:29.440 --> 00:25:29.920
Yep.

00:25:30.160 --> 00:25:31.359
I feel that.

00:25:32.000 --> 00:25:38.400
Tell us a little bit about the motivation for that and and what that looks like, what's going on there in the studio?

00:25:38.559 --> 00:25:48.400
Because I get some of your emails and know that there's you're pulling people together for photography shows and for different creative things.

00:25:48.640 --> 00:25:51.039
Tell it, give us a little bit of an overview, please.

00:25:51.279 --> 00:25:54.000
Um, well, I I've done a few events.

00:25:54.079 --> 00:26:06.000
I've done some art events uh in this in Spokane, they do First Fridays, which are art shows, and you know, and so we're on that path that we did three of them so far.

00:26:06.240 --> 00:26:07.200
And that was fun.

00:26:07.359 --> 00:26:21.839
It's just it's a lot of work, and and you know, like I feel like, you know, I don't know if you proud, maybe you know, like you know how when you didn't get picked in school, that's how I every First Friday feels to me.

00:26:21.920 --> 00:26:24.640
Every event, every everything I've ever done feels that way.

00:26:24.720 --> 00:26:31.759
That's why I'm saying the little girl in me is alive and well and loud, because she's like, pick me, pick me.

00:26:31.920 --> 00:26:35.680
I just watched a TV show yesterday that said something about don't be a pick me girl.

00:26:35.839 --> 00:26:37.200
I'm a pick me girl.

00:26:37.440 --> 00:26:39.119
Um, but it's been beautiful.

00:26:39.200 --> 00:26:41.200
I brought a lot of creatives together.

00:26:41.359 --> 00:26:47.279
I just had a creative meetup, which was really fun, and there was a lot of people that came through the studio.

00:26:48.319 --> 00:26:50.319
I mean, there's there's other events that are happening.

00:26:50.400 --> 00:27:04.160
I'm getting I'm doing a lighting class, which is the irony of all ironies, because I'm trying to show people that it's not as hard as you think, and I shouldn't have waited 30 years to go to it because it took me 30 years, yeah, full circle.

00:27:04.240 --> 00:27:05.680
So that's really exciting.

00:27:06.000 --> 00:27:08.960
Well, we we also teach what we must need to learn.

00:27:09.039 --> 00:27:10.640
So that makes perfect sense to me.

00:27:10.880 --> 00:27:11.920
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

00:27:12.079 --> 00:27:18.000
I love I really do love that because that's what I was so scared, and really it is not scary at all.

00:27:18.079 --> 00:27:21.440
It's just point the point it at somebody and see what happens.

00:27:21.680 --> 00:27:26.079
That's what I think about all art now that I know better.

00:27:26.319 --> 00:27:28.079
I'm just trying to have fun.

00:27:28.480 --> 00:27:30.720
I can't take anything too seriously.

00:27:30.880 --> 00:27:32.400
It might come out, it might not.

00:27:32.480 --> 00:27:34.400
It's you probably probably gonna.

00:27:35.519 --> 00:27:41.519
You know, I've no done it enough to know that it's gonna work out, but also I'm going into it with let's see what happens.

00:27:41.759 --> 00:27:42.000
Right.

00:27:42.240 --> 00:27:44.559
So there's no fear that way.

00:27:45.440 --> 00:27:48.400
Yeah, you you never know if you don't try.

00:27:48.640 --> 00:27:54.640
Or I guess the other way of framing that is it'll it'll never work if you don't try.

00:27:55.839 --> 00:28:04.400
And I think it's okay to the word isn't fail, but to create something that you don't like, toss it and try again.

00:28:04.559 --> 00:28:10.160
Like it is not the end of the world to make art that is not what you hoped it would be.

00:28:10.400 --> 00:28:15.200
But it we have this such a fear of, well, I can't, I'm not creative.

00:28:15.440 --> 00:28:25.759
That's just I just that's another thing that really I hope we can let go of because for me, the joy of creating is as much as the final product.

00:28:26.720 --> 00:28:28.240
There's such a pleasure.

00:28:28.880 --> 00:28:41.920
Yeah, unfortunately, I I think that there's there are too many dark forces that gain from people having uh a very fixed mentality where it's it's a coin flip.

00:28:42.079 --> 00:28:44.880
It's you win or you lose.

00:28:45.519 --> 00:28:58.160
But in reality, if we try to sustain an infinite gain, even that coin flip when you're learning something is well, I mean, that's just it.

00:28:58.400 --> 00:29:06.160
You're either you either get lucky or if when it doesn't work out, you learn something a little bit more.

00:29:07.519 --> 00:29:11.440
That's how you acquire skills, it's how you sharpen the saw.

00:29:11.759 --> 00:29:12.400
Right.

00:29:13.599 --> 00:29:15.039
I I think that's true too.

00:29:15.200 --> 00:29:18.000
I'm learning that too about people.

00:29:18.400 --> 00:29:23.279
Like every time something happens, it's like, okay, that person's a lesson for me.

00:29:24.000 --> 00:29:28.640
I'm not sure if I know what the lesson is this minute, but I know it's something I'm supposed to learn.

00:29:28.720 --> 00:29:33.119
And you know, I'm really, really, really working hard to not take things personally.

00:29:33.279 --> 00:29:39.039
I mean, if I'm on my deathbed and I'm still saying that, I didn't succeed, but I'm working on it.

00:29:39.200 --> 00:29:41.119
That's the hardest one for me.

00:29:41.839 --> 00:29:43.680
I think that's hard for all of us.

00:29:43.839 --> 00:29:46.400
I it all feels personal, doesn't it?

00:29:46.640 --> 00:29:47.519
Yeah, it does.

00:29:47.680 --> 00:29:58.079
Yeah, I just have to really step back sometimes and say, okay, you know, people didn't plot to hurt you by not showing up at your event or whatever the thing is.

00:29:58.480 --> 00:29:58.960
100%.

00:29:59.200 --> 00:29:59.839
They're not even.

00:30:00.160 --> 00:30:01.519
Been thinking about you at all.

00:30:01.599 --> 00:30:03.519
Like they have forgotten that there was an event.

00:30:03.599 --> 00:30:04.480
I totally know this.

00:30:04.559 --> 00:30:05.680
Like, my I guess what I'm saying.

00:30:05.759 --> 00:30:08.319
Like the 57-year-old is totally fine.

00:30:09.200 --> 00:30:13.119
She's just having to calm down the five-year-old, you know, there, there.

00:30:14.559 --> 00:30:15.519
Exactly.

00:30:15.920 --> 00:30:21.279
You know, I I think the there's I'm I'm wondering if there's something more.

00:30:21.359 --> 00:30:29.119
Your your story about walking away from photography because you didn't think they were intimidated by the lighting.

00:30:29.200 --> 00:30:32.559
And we all have something like this.

00:30:33.119 --> 00:30:38.240
Um is there more that we could dive into that?

00:30:38.400 --> 00:30:41.680
Because I think that's something that is kind of universal and creative.

00:30:42.240 --> 00:30:50.559
I know for me, when my father died in 2012, I had been saying one of these days, one of these days, I'm going to take painting lessons.

00:30:50.799 --> 00:30:51.759
And he died.

00:30:51.839 --> 00:30:57.039
I got that slap of mortality in the face, and I started taking classes and painting.

00:30:57.119 --> 00:31:01.279
And I painted for five, six years, maybe seven, I don't remember.

00:31:01.359 --> 00:31:02.559
And then I put it down.

00:31:02.720 --> 00:31:05.039
And I haven't touched it now in about seven years.

00:31:05.119 --> 00:31:10.319
And about, I don't know, three months ago, I decided I wanted to paint again.

00:31:11.039 --> 00:31:13.759
And I've been creative all my life.

00:31:14.000 --> 00:31:36.960
And most of the creative endeavors that I took on, I was able to create things that were worthwhile, you know, whether it was decorating the house for Christmas, whether it was baking something or cooking some wonderful creation or hair color and haircuts and makeup on my absolutely fabulous clientele.

00:31:38.000 --> 00:31:44.720
I did photography for a number of years as a hobby and even shot professionally for a couple of years.

00:31:44.799 --> 00:31:47.440
That was a mistake, but ruined it for me.

00:31:47.599 --> 00:31:58.480
But for me, most of the things that I've gone into creatively have kind of come rather easy to me.

00:31:59.119 --> 00:32:03.759
I I do remember photography that in the beginning, just I just wasn't getting it.

00:32:03.839 --> 00:32:11.440
You know, I was studying, I was reading, I was playing with the camera and all these settings and what they do, and and it wasn't clicking.

00:32:11.599 --> 00:32:15.119
And I just kind of kept being patient and kept studying.

00:32:15.200 --> 00:32:19.839
And one day it was just like all of a sudden it made sense.

00:32:20.319 --> 00:32:23.519
Well, I'm in that right now with my painting.

00:32:23.839 --> 00:32:35.839
Yes, I've acquired a few skills, and I can paint a thing or two here or there that kind of look decent, but there's some aspect of it that just hasn't quite clicked yet.

00:32:36.079 --> 00:32:39.279
I just don't, I it just hasn't clicked.

00:32:39.519 --> 00:32:44.799
And part of it is that you carry around with you your own harshest critic.

00:32:45.680 --> 00:32:57.119
You you carry one of the things that you gain from that 40-year beauty professional career is that you always aspire for perfection the first time around.

00:32:57.519 --> 00:33:03.759
Well, you know, you don't get a second time once you've cut their hair off, it's cut, you know.

00:33:04.079 --> 00:33:08.400
You you you only get one chance to do that color and that cut right.

00:33:08.480 --> 00:33:13.759
Because if you fuck it up, it's almost impossible to come back from that.

00:33:14.240 --> 00:33:17.599
And I appreciate perfectionism in hairdressers.

00:33:17.680 --> 00:33:18.240
Thank you.

00:33:18.640 --> 00:33:19.759
Yes, yes.

00:33:20.000 --> 00:33:29.119
And that's been probably part of the hardest thing to overcome because everything, most of what I've done had a very specific end game.

00:33:29.359 --> 00:33:32.720
I knew what I wanted it to look like before I even started.

00:33:33.039 --> 00:33:36.319
And I, when I started painting, I thought, I don't want that.

00:33:36.480 --> 00:33:43.759
I I I just want to start and let it take me on a journey, not knowing where the end place is going to be.

00:33:44.319 --> 00:33:50.319
But boy, the way my mind works is just struggling with that.

00:33:51.279 --> 00:34:00.559
Um, so I think that there's for all of us, it doesn't matter what stage of our creative journey we're in, we hit walls from time to time.

00:34:01.680 --> 00:34:12.079
And you have a story of how you just charged and you know mowed that wall down.

00:34:12.639 --> 00:34:14.639
Now you're teaching the lighting.

00:34:15.119 --> 00:34:17.199
I found out it's ADHD.

00:34:18.800 --> 00:34:20.559
I have no impulse control.

00:34:21.599 --> 00:34:25.280
That's what I think the uh mowing things down is.

00:34:25.519 --> 00:34:30.480
I just I am a throw shit at the wall and see if it'll stick kind of girl.

00:34:31.119 --> 00:34:34.800
I'm not very uh I'm not figuring out the steps to get there.

00:34:34.880 --> 00:34:36.719
I'm just gonna try it and see what works.

00:34:37.119 --> 00:34:38.960
You're you're not a strategist.

00:34:39.039 --> 00:34:40.159
You're not you're not a strategic.

00:34:40.480 --> 00:34:44.159
There's no strategy in this this brain.

00:34:44.400 --> 00:34:45.760
There's all creative.

00:34:45.840 --> 00:34:47.280
There's all I'm tilted.

00:34:48.159 --> 00:34:50.719
There's a whole left side of me that's empty.

00:34:53.519 --> 00:34:56.719
It's very hard to go through life this way, actually.

00:34:56.960 --> 00:35:02.320
Um, especially with my husband who's extremely the opposite, very organized, knows.

00:35:02.400 --> 00:35:04.079
I mean, I have to ask him where everything is.

00:35:04.159 --> 00:35:05.280
It's so cute.

00:35:05.679 --> 00:35:08.079
Oh, well, that that's one way of achieving balance.

00:35:08.320 --> 00:35:09.119
It's nice to have them.

00:35:09.199 --> 00:35:11.440
Yeah, oh yes, it's very good, actually.

00:35:12.000 --> 00:35:24.559
Um well for me, the lighting thing was my sister, the closest sister to me, we were one person when we were little.

00:35:24.800 --> 00:35:26.800
I mentioned that she talked for me.

00:35:26.960 --> 00:35:29.280
We were we weren't separate.

00:35:29.440 --> 00:35:31.360
Um, but she was the smart one.

00:35:31.440 --> 00:35:33.760
She was in the gifted, and I was not.

00:35:33.920 --> 00:35:35.280
I was in remedial math.

00:35:35.360 --> 00:35:37.280
You know, I just was not her.

00:35:37.519 --> 00:35:41.280
And I believed the lie I told myself that I was stupid.

00:35:42.000 --> 00:35:51.280
Um, I truly, which is so strange because I learned how to use a computer, but for some reason the lighting, and like you're saying, the camera is intimidating.

00:35:51.840 --> 00:35:55.599
Um so I just was sure that was not my path.

00:35:55.920 --> 00:36:09.599
And then, and then right when I started, it was right before COVID, and COVID hit, and so then I did, oh, I'm gonna try a self-portrait series, which lasted 60 days.

00:36:09.679 --> 00:36:21.760
It wasn't meant to be 60 days, but it was 60 days of me practicing lighting, a very patient model, uh, me, and um I found out it wasn't as hard as I thought it was.

00:36:22.000 --> 00:36:33.920
So, I mean, I got really lucky with COVID and this self-portrait series, and I I I know so many photographers that are like, well, I don't do lighting, I'm a natural light photographer because they're scared.

00:36:34.159 --> 00:36:46.320
And so that's the the lighting class is lighting made simple, you know, a hands-on approach because it's truly so simple and it it adds so much to the image.

00:36:46.880 --> 00:36:51.280
You know, you're you don't you're not dictated by the light, you're you're creating with light.

00:36:51.519 --> 00:36:52.800
Yes, you're painting with light.

00:36:53.039 --> 00:36:54.000
You're painting with light.

00:36:54.079 --> 00:36:56.800
You are the master of what happens in that picture.

00:36:57.280 --> 00:37:17.199
It is something you have to master for sure, but I always felt like when I was doing photography, it you know, when you're working with natural light, you're at the mercy of the weather, the time of the day, short seasons when it stays dark later in the morning and gets dark earlier in the evening.

00:37:17.280 --> 00:37:22.559
Yeah, it plays havoc with your your whole creative uh journey.

00:37:22.719 --> 00:37:29.840
And and to be able to manipulate artificial light gives you an insane amount of freedom.

00:37:30.239 --> 00:37:36.000
But but I think the the thing is you don't have to master it, you just have to play with it.

00:37:36.159 --> 00:37:39.599
And I think that's what you have to learn about your painting.

00:37:39.840 --> 00:37:43.760
And what we all have to keep in mind is that nobody's an expert.

00:37:43.840 --> 00:37:57.840
I just talked to somebody who works on worked on films in LA, and the sound guy who gets paid, she said, as much as she made all year on that one project, um, would say, Oh, I don't know, let me go look that up.

00:37:58.880 --> 00:38:02.880
Like, just you don't have to know everything.

00:38:03.679 --> 00:38:09.519
And every, even he's getting paid so much and he doesn't know everything, and he's not even pretending he knows everything.

00:38:09.760 --> 00:38:22.800
I think we I that's what like every photo shoot, a paid one or a play one, I'm still going into it with the emotion of I'm gonna have fun, I'm gonna play, I hope it works out.

00:38:23.599 --> 00:38:30.400
Like I said, it usually does, but but because I've taken all the pressure off of me, now I'm gonna have fun no matter what.

00:38:30.880 --> 00:38:31.519
Yeah.

00:38:32.000 --> 00:38:35.360
And now it's art again and it's not a stress.

00:38:35.599 --> 00:38:39.920
Because what what the point, what's the point of even doing it if I'm not having fun?

00:38:40.480 --> 00:38:42.559
What a gift you give to yourself.

00:38:42.800 --> 00:38:44.800
Yeah, I'm very generous.

00:38:46.239 --> 00:38:58.079
I think if people could hear the old inner critic and this this new sweet person that chats with me, they'd be like, ah, you know, like when people are so in love and they're gooey.

00:38:58.719 --> 00:39:00.000
That's what I'm like with myself.

00:39:00.079 --> 00:39:01.599
I'm just so very kind.

00:39:02.320 --> 00:39:04.079
I like that a lot.

00:39:04.320 --> 00:39:05.119
Yeah, me too.

00:39:05.360 --> 00:39:08.960
Very much the whole world could use a an extra dose of that.

00:39:09.280 --> 00:39:10.239
Yeah, yeah.

00:39:10.960 --> 00:39:12.000
I wish it for them.

00:39:12.159 --> 00:39:13.119
I really do.

00:39:15.119 --> 00:39:16.159
That's beautiful.

00:39:16.400 --> 00:39:18.239
Well, what's what's next?

00:39:20.639 --> 00:39:34.719
Well, well, um, I I think until I die, until I die, I'm gonna make art in whatever form that it takes.

00:39:35.360 --> 00:39:46.960
Um I mean, I'm not actively dying, but I do have incurable cancer, and I have chosen not to do chemo again because it kind of stole a year from me.

00:39:47.039 --> 00:39:54.639
And with incurable cancer, it'll just be like, that doesn't sound like a good idea to do it again and again and again and again, lose years when I could.

00:39:54.719 --> 00:39:57.840
I'm already 57, I only have so many left.

00:39:58.960 --> 00:40:03.199
So I'm just gonna live out loud and and make art.

00:40:03.440 --> 00:40:04.559
This is what I wrote the other day.

00:40:04.639 --> 00:40:08.880
I had a I had the creative meetup here, and we had to write our dreams up on the board.

00:40:09.039 --> 00:40:12.239
And all I wrote was make love and make art.

00:40:12.400 --> 00:40:15.280
So if I die doing those two things, I'll be good.

00:40:16.159 --> 00:40:18.480
I have had the love of my life.

00:40:18.639 --> 00:40:20.000
I have the love of my life.

00:40:20.079 --> 00:40:22.239
I am so lucky.

00:40:22.480 --> 00:40:28.400
I was miserably miserable in love for 45 years, and then I met my husband.

00:40:28.639 --> 00:40:39.920
And so for the last 11 years, I've been so lucky and feel very okay with whatever happens, happens.

00:40:40.480 --> 00:40:42.400
That's also a lovely place to be.

00:40:43.599 --> 00:40:46.719
You know, I can I can literally feel that peace.

00:40:47.119 --> 00:40:48.079
Yeah, totally.

00:40:48.400 --> 00:40:49.360
I can I can feel it.

00:40:49.440 --> 00:40:56.480
You've made peace with what's going on, and you're just gonna make the absolute friggin' best at it.

00:40:56.719 --> 00:40:57.440
Yeah, yeah.

00:40:57.920 --> 00:40:59.280
I'm not sad about anything.

00:40:59.360 --> 00:41:01.199
I'm not like it's not morose at all.

00:41:01.360 --> 00:41:09.360
I think I I wish that for everybody too, to be at peace with the ending that is destined for you.

00:41:09.840 --> 00:41:11.119
You just don't know when.

00:41:11.280 --> 00:41:15.360
The people the fact that people are scared of death too is a fascinating thing.

00:41:15.679 --> 00:41:21.119
Um, but I just feel very at peace with all of it.

00:41:21.199 --> 00:41:25.920
And I feel I'm so lucky to have been loved so well by my husband.

00:41:26.239 --> 00:41:32.960
And people that have graced my camera lens have just, I love making art.

00:41:33.119 --> 00:41:39.360
I love the beauty in everybody, and I appreciate that they let me shoot them, you know, photograph them.

00:41:39.760 --> 00:41:44.159
It's a real special thing to be allowed to come into somebody's world, isn't it?

00:41:44.480 --> 00:41:45.039
I think so.

00:41:45.119 --> 00:41:49.519
I think that with the podcast too, you know, you know that you know, you get intimate.

00:41:49.840 --> 00:41:53.760
You almost feel like it's so intimate, we must be best friends.

00:41:53.920 --> 00:41:56.239
And then you have to realize you're not, you're just for that moment.

00:41:56.400 --> 00:41:57.280
But that's okay too.

00:41:57.360 --> 00:42:00.880
That once you get that, that it's nice to have that moment with somebody.

00:42:01.199 --> 00:42:05.199
Well, and knowing that, you know, at any time you could recreate that moment.

00:42:05.360 --> 00:42:13.760
I believe that I could reach out to any person that's on the podcast and say, can we connect?

00:42:13.920 --> 00:42:16.960
And and it would be a most likely a resounding yes.

00:42:17.199 --> 00:42:18.800
Yes, I feel that way too.

00:42:19.039 --> 00:42:20.719
It's it is a beautiful experience.

00:42:20.880 --> 00:42:26.320
I love that people are willing to open up at all, and especially in these ways.

00:42:26.880 --> 00:42:30.400
You know, a lot of models ask me, a lot of people ask me, well, what should I wear?

00:42:30.559 --> 00:42:31.840
Or what do you what's your concept?

00:42:31.920 --> 00:42:34.239
And I'm like, what do you want to wear?

00:42:34.400 --> 00:42:35.440
What's your concept?

00:42:35.679 --> 00:42:38.639
I mean, it I don't even think it has anything to do with me.

00:42:39.119 --> 00:42:47.039
I mean, I am bringing artistry to it, but generally I feel like I'm pointing the camera at you and you're doing everything.

00:42:47.519 --> 00:42:50.880
You're the art, you are what we're trying to capture.

00:42:51.119 --> 00:42:56.239
It doesn't really have anything to do with my vision of you because I don't know you, even if I know you.

00:42:56.400 --> 00:42:58.559
Like, what do you want people to think about you?

00:42:58.719 --> 00:43:00.719
What do you want to portray?

00:43:01.199 --> 00:43:06.719
So I I really love the collaborative process of photography.

00:43:07.119 --> 00:43:08.719
Because it's not about me.

00:43:08.960 --> 00:43:14.800
I do enjoy it, I love the art of it, but it's about the person and how do they want to be represented.

00:43:16.320 --> 00:43:23.920
Yeah, holding space for them to really show up so you capture the who they really are.00:43:24.719 --> 00:43:25.039


Right.00:43:25.760 --> 00:43:26.159


Yeah.00:43:27.280 --> 00:43:40.320


Well, recently I I had somebody upset with me and I said that, you know, while I'm a safe space, somebody pointed out the difference between holding space and being a safe space.00:43:40.719 --> 00:43:44.800


And I'll share that with you because I think it's fascinating because I didn't realize the difference.00:43:45.199 --> 00:43:53.199


I mean, I don't know if you do, but I just I just love this idea because it was a good lesson for me.00:43:53.760 --> 00:43:55.599


Well, I'm like, but I'm a safe space.00:43:56.000 --> 00:43:58.719


And he said, How can you be a safe space for everybody?00:43:58.960 --> 00:44:03.679


Because if you're in the Black Panthers, the KKK is not a safe space for you.00:44:04.159 --> 00:44:09.760


And I was like, Oh, oh, yeah, like, okay.00:44:10.400 --> 00:44:17.519


Though so that's just another lesson of those who love me or feel safe around me, love me and feel safe around me.00:44:17.599 --> 00:44:21.840


And those who don't, don't, and that's okay, let them, let them.00:44:22.480 --> 00:44:23.760


That's a hard one.00:44:23.920 --> 00:44:34.320


Um, but somebody came into the creative meeting, she didn't know anybody, she was very emotional, she started to cry, and I held her, I hugged her and held her for a little bit.00:44:34.400 --> 00:44:38.559


And she wrote recently, she wrote afterwards, um, thank you for holding space for me.00:44:38.639 --> 00:44:40.239


And I was like, that's what I can do.00:44:40.480 --> 00:44:43.039


I can hold space, but I can't be a safe space for everyone.00:44:43.119 --> 00:44:44.719


And I love that lesson.00:44:44.880 --> 00:44:46.800


That was just recently.00:44:47.360 --> 00:44:49.920


Isn't that a really good way of looking at it?00:44:50.239 --> 00:44:51.039


It is.00:44:51.199 --> 00:45:11.599


We we got exposed to something similar to that probably maybe about a almost two years ago when, you know, because we we host events and and we we we would say, you know, this is we've that we've created a safe container, and and and we were taught, and and we really, really fully get it, that we don't have that ability.00:45:11.840 --> 00:45:12.159


Right.00:45:12.400 --> 00:45:16.079


We just don't have the ability to create a safe container for others.00:45:16.400 --> 00:45:28.000


We have the ability to hold space and then ask them if they will collectively create a safe container, yeah, and get their buy-in.00:45:28.159 --> 00:45:31.760


And we do that with every event that we we lead.00:45:32.079 --> 00:45:48.239


And it's amazing what that you can feel a shift in energy in the room when everybody has raised their hand to agree that they will do everything in their power to hold the space as sacred space and make it safe for everybody.00:45:48.559 --> 00:45:53.199


There's just this collective kind of like, ah, exhale.00:45:53.599 --> 00:45:53.920


Right.00:45:54.079 --> 00:46:03.360


And it just, and then everybody gets really, really real, really open, and um, it does create a what we call people magic.00:46:03.920 --> 00:46:04.880


I love that.00:46:05.199 --> 00:46:10.000


Do you find that people are, especially artists?00:46:10.320 --> 00:46:17.599


I mean, I'm not sure what I think about this, but do you find that people are constantly in competition rather than collaboration?00:46:17.920 --> 00:46:24.239


I'm not sure what I think about that, but I I have a feeling that there's that, that's a problem.00:46:24.719 --> 00:46:27.679


I think that's what's modeled in the West.00:46:28.159 --> 00:46:38.239


And uh it's something that's a very there's a very strong pressure to have that be how people are are steered.00:46:39.119 --> 00:47:12.480


But it's overcome because uh there are a lot of uh famous anthropological studies where they go into places where they haven't been corrupted by uh uh our commercial practices, and it's very easy for um for the children to play infinite games where there's not someone that wins or loses, but the idea is to just keep playing, and they would go on forever.00:47:15.039 --> 00:47:17.199


My sister and I actually, she's in Boston.00:47:17.440 --> 00:47:23.039


We play Catan in our Oculus and our and you know what I'm talking about, a quest of VR headset.00:47:23.199 --> 00:47:23.519


Uh-huh.00:47:23.760 --> 00:47:31.920


And it's a game of chance, so but we just play, well, we'll play one more, we'll play one more, we'll play one more until you know 10 games have gone by.00:47:32.000 --> 00:47:32.960


But it's that same thing.00:47:33.039 --> 00:47:35.760


You're gonna win at some point because it's it's a game of chance.00:47:35.840 --> 00:47:39.440


It's not like you're better than the next person or smarter or anything.00:47:39.519 --> 00:47:41.360


So that's the competitiveness is gone.00:47:41.440 --> 00:47:43.440


It's just like, let's see what happens this time.00:47:43.760 --> 00:47:46.400


But it's very uh joyful to play.00:47:46.480 --> 00:47:48.880


I love I do like infinite games.00:47:50.800 --> 00:48:09.119


You know, I I would say that in all of our because we're very involved in the arts community locally, we go to a lot of stuff, we host this stuff, we have all these guests on the podcast, and I would say we don't come across very many creatives that are talking up competitive energy.00:48:09.360 --> 00:48:12.880


Yeah, most of it's more collaboration.00:48:13.280 --> 00:48:31.199


I can recall one very specific conversation where somebody, you know, had an experience of somebody kind of like stealing her idea and you know, like literally looking at some of her paintings and then going and recreating them and doing better with them than she did with them.00:48:31.760 --> 00:48:36.400


And so she is very like closed off.00:48:36.480 --> 00:48:44.239


She doesn't want to have contact with other creatives, and she's very solo and very isolated and very, very fearful.00:48:44.559 --> 00:48:46.800


Yeah, she misses out, I think.00:48:47.039 --> 00:48:54.400


I mean, like you said, she's fearful, but she's so alone, like she's really on an island.00:48:54.719 --> 00:49:17.280


You know, to have one experience like that and to take that experience and determine that everybody is like that is is um it's a real sad decision to make to decide that you, you know, you had one person did you dirty, and now you know, everybody is like that.00:49:17.679 --> 00:49:19.440


And that's kind of a human condition.00:49:19.519 --> 00:49:21.280


We tend to do that sometimes.00:49:21.519 --> 00:49:30.480


We label people and put them all in a box once we've you know had one person of that type, whatever, do us do us wrong.00:49:30.800 --> 00:49:40.559


Um but well, and also I feel like the person who maybe maybe did wrong or maybe didn't because did she own art?00:49:40.800 --> 00:49:41.119


I don't know.00:49:41.199 --> 00:49:42.559


That's a thing, that's a whole nother thing.00:49:42.719 --> 00:49:50.159


But um, but to be like for that one act to then be that person for the rest of her life.00:49:50.239 --> 00:49:50.880


You know what I mean?00:49:50.960 --> 00:49:58.960


Like, I feel like we were just talking about that I can think something, write it down, and then no longer think it because it's outside of me.00:49:59.119 --> 00:50:02.800


Like I'm not even my thoughts that I had a minute ago sometimes.00:50:03.199 --> 00:50:07.679


So to be like, you know, that she did that five months ago.00:50:07.840 --> 00:50:09.599


Like I'm I'm not the person five months ago.00:50:09.679 --> 00:50:12.239


I'm not even the person I was a thought a minute a minute ago.00:50:12.480 --> 00:50:12.800


That's right.00:50:12.880 --> 00:50:13.360


We know that's a good thing.00:50:13.519 --> 00:50:26.400


So we have to just totally give ourselves, give each other grace too, because we can't even be held responsible for our own thoughts the minute we think it, because we the minute we let it go, sometimes it's not even true anymore.00:50:26.719 --> 00:50:27.360


Yeah.00:50:27.840 --> 00:50:30.000


That's that's a valid point.00:50:30.239 --> 00:50:30.400


Yeah.00:50:30.639 --> 00:50:30.960


Yeah.00:50:31.119 --> 00:50:34.159


Well, because you can't, yeah, I don't want to be held responsible.00:50:35.199 --> 00:50:43.760


You know, I I think maybe we don't attract much of that because we speak so much about community and about collaboration and co-elevation.00:50:43.840 --> 00:50:44.480


And yeah.00:50:44.880 --> 00:50:53.920


So we kind of that polarizing thing that we send those those competitive people, they just go away because, you know, we're not speaking their language.00:50:54.239 --> 00:50:59.360


I'm just in a community of, and I don't know if this is true, is why uh the question was genuine.00:50:59.599 --> 00:51:03.760


I'm in a community of photographers who are all buying for the same clients, I think.00:51:03.840 --> 00:51:06.159


It's a small community and a lot of photographers.00:51:06.320 --> 00:51:07.840


And so that's what made me think that.00:51:08.079 --> 00:51:17.360


But my creative meetup, I had a film director here and I had an actress here who had never met, and she auditioned for her.00:51:17.440 --> 00:51:19.119


And anyway, that that's so exciting.00:51:19.199 --> 00:51:20.400


That's the whole idea.00:51:20.559 --> 00:51:25.599


Like I I made that happen just by creating the space for it to happen.00:51:25.920 --> 00:51:32.880


And that I feel like there, that's what if that's all that ever came out of all the things I've ever done, that's so cool.00:51:33.119 --> 00:51:34.719


Because that's the whole idea.00:51:35.119 --> 00:51:36.880


That's what I call my happy place.00:51:37.039 --> 00:51:37.360


Yeah.00:51:37.519 --> 00:51:37.760


Yeah.00:51:37.920 --> 00:51:47.440


You know, when we bring people together and we see what happens with the connections, um, that that really's my happy place.00:51:47.519 --> 00:51:47.679


Yeah.00:51:48.480 --> 00:51:56.960


As you as you speak about that competitive atmosphere, I'm reminded of the old proverb about the long spoons.00:51:57.360 --> 00:52:09.039


You know, the spoon, so the way that it's set up, you have these people that are uh around a big bowl of soup and they only have really long spoons.00:52:09.599 --> 00:52:14.800


And the spoons are impossibly long, so long that they can't feed themselves the spoons.00:52:15.360 --> 00:52:21.920


But the only way that they can all eat is if they can serve each other with the spoons.00:52:22.880 --> 00:52:23.840


I love that.00:52:25.039 --> 00:52:25.519


Yeah.00:52:25.760 --> 00:52:25.920


Yeah.00:52:26.239 --> 00:52:26.800


That's so beautiful.00:52:27.199 --> 00:52:34.639


There's a great visual of that or a short video that floated around on Facebook uh a few years back that was just amazing.00:52:34.719 --> 00:52:41.199


You know, illustrated, you know, the people scooping out with these really long spoons, and they couldn't get it to their own mouth.00:52:41.360 --> 00:52:43.920


So they finally figured out that they would just feed each other.00:52:44.000 --> 00:52:44.960


It was beautiful.00:52:45.280 --> 00:52:46.880


Yeah, that is beautiful.00:52:47.119 --> 00:52:50.239


Well, I'm hoping to to build something here.00:52:50.400 --> 00:52:56.159


Um, you asked me, I guess you asked me what the future holds, and the future holds, we'll see.00:52:58.000 --> 00:52:58.800


I don't know.00:52:58.960 --> 00:53:03.920


I don't know how long the future is, I don't know what this space will be.00:53:04.079 --> 00:53:10.880


I don't know if it'll all work out, but it always all works out, just maybe not the way I have envisioned in my head.00:53:11.119 --> 00:53:14.559


So, so I'm open.00:53:14.880 --> 00:53:15.280


Yeah.00:53:15.599 --> 00:53:19.920


No, it's kind of like me spreading paint on the canvas and seeing where it takes me.00:53:20.159 --> 00:53:20.320


Yeah.00:53:20.639 --> 00:53:22.880


Have you ever written something the same way?00:53:23.039 --> 00:53:29.760


Like I've written a story where I'm as excited as somebody who might ever read it to find out what's gonna happen.00:53:30.000 --> 00:53:31.280


You know, I don't know.00:53:31.519 --> 00:53:33.760


I don't know, I don't know the end.00:53:33.920 --> 00:53:36.239


I don't know when a painting is the same way as you.00:53:36.400 --> 00:53:38.079


I'm like, let's just see what happens.00:53:38.159 --> 00:53:41.840


I feel the same way about it's exciting to see what happens.00:53:42.079 --> 00:53:48.480


It is, and like the person who did not know where she was going in Italy, and I went to France once too, and I didn't know.00:53:48.639 --> 00:53:51.519


I loved the I love not knowing.00:53:52.079 --> 00:53:56.960


Well, it's it's all fun and games until you come across the the wrong border checkpoint.00:53:57.199 --> 00:53:59.280


Oh, well, I have people in charge.00:54:00.079 --> 00:54:02.079


My sister knew everything.00:54:02.400 --> 00:54:08.400


I did I wasn't I wasn't worried about, yeah, no, everything was planned to the I don't know how we're so different, but she knew everything.00:54:08.480 --> 00:54:10.639


It was on a spreadsheet, even yuck.00:54:11.199 --> 00:54:11.840


Wow.00:54:12.159 --> 00:54:14.480


Wow, they all are different as night and day, aren't you?00:54:14.719 --> 00:54:15.119


Yes, yes.00:54:15.199 --> 00:54:17.440


I don't know how, right, she was the smart one.00:54:18.239 --> 00:54:26.159


Well, we have one question that we ask every guest toward the end of of the episode.00:54:26.960 --> 00:54:29.760


And um, so here we go.00:54:31.039 --> 00:54:35.679


In your current creative life, what is the biggest pain point?00:54:36.320 --> 00:54:43.360


That challenge that if it were solved would be a game changer for your creative journey.00:54:50.639 --> 00:54:55.039


I mean, I think I have it solved by not taking it too seriously.00:54:55.360 --> 00:55:00.239


Like, I'm not holding myself to there's no pain point because I'm just playing.00:55:00.559 --> 00:55:14.800


But I think if I can answer the question in the way that if there's a pain point in my life in terms of like everything I do, it would be just really building a community.00:55:15.599 --> 00:55:19.360


And and also then I think is that the solution?00:55:20.000 --> 00:55:22.480


Will that will that change everything?00:55:22.559 --> 00:55:23.599


I don't even know.00:55:24.079 --> 00:55:30.320


You know, like you're saying that the people who don't like you, then are they even the people you would want to be around?00:55:30.480 --> 00:55:34.559


Like I want to build this community, but then will that change anything?00:55:34.719 --> 00:55:35.199


I don't know.00:55:35.360 --> 00:55:38.800


So I'm open to it and I'm trying, and we'll see.00:55:39.280 --> 00:55:45.360


But I don't think there's anything that needs to happen to change anything for me.00:55:46.559 --> 00:55:48.880


Oh, am I the only one who ever said that?00:55:50.000 --> 00:55:51.920


Well, it's it's a beautiful thing.00:55:52.159 --> 00:55:58.880


And oh, you know, you're you're talking to uh the connections and community guys, so we're a little biased.00:55:59.199 --> 00:56:04.880


And uh we uh I hate to speak for Maddox, but we we love your answer.00:56:05.199 --> 00:56:06.159


Oh, good, good.00:56:06.400 --> 00:56:07.440


Well, I it's true.00:56:07.519 --> 00:56:18.880


I really can't even think of anything because if if you're just playing, if you're if you're willing to fail or the project, you know, not with any pressure on yourself, there's nothing, there's no pain point.00:56:19.519 --> 00:56:20.000


Yeah.00:56:20.239 --> 00:56:21.760


I can't even think of anything.00:56:22.559 --> 00:56:24.800


Yeah, nobody's nobody said that, Aaron.00:56:25.119 --> 00:56:27.679


But also, because I'm we're all gonna die.00:56:28.320 --> 00:56:28.719


Yes.00:56:28.960 --> 00:56:29.920


Not in a bad way.00:56:30.079 --> 00:56:35.440


We're all just wasting time worrying about things that aren't to worry about.00:56:35.840 --> 00:56:45.440


Well, you know, I for many years I've tried to, you know, when I get too overly worried about something, I will project myself out to the very end of my life.00:56:46.159 --> 00:56:49.360


Imagine that I'm about to take my last few breaths.00:56:49.599 --> 00:56:55.280


And I ask myself, is this something that you'll be worried about when you're about to take your last breath?00:56:55.440 --> 00:56:59.119


And if the answer is no, then why are you worried about it now?00:56:59.440 --> 00:57:00.880


I don't think that's morose.00:57:00.960 --> 00:57:02.079


I think that's brilliant.00:57:02.320 --> 00:57:06.159


I think we should all be doing that because it's really true.00:57:06.239 --> 00:57:08.800


We're holding on to things that do not matter.00:57:11.760 --> 00:57:11.920


Right.00:57:12.000 --> 00:57:16.480


Or like think about somebody who's written something stupid on Facebook and then that's their last post.00:57:17.760 --> 00:57:21.440


I'm just saying any moment can be our last, and we just have to.00:57:21.519 --> 00:57:23.199


My mom passed away when I was 18.00:57:23.280 --> 00:57:25.119


So I always thought she was 46.00:57:25.280 --> 00:57:27.360


I always thought I was gonna die at 46.00:57:27.760 --> 00:57:30.639


And so I've kind of been living that way anyway.00:57:30.880 --> 00:57:34.320


Yes, like just, you know, uh could die any minute.00:57:34.559 --> 00:57:35.840


And now I'm 57.00:57:35.920 --> 00:57:37.760


I didn't die at 46, luckily.00:57:37.840 --> 00:57:40.639


So every day is already a gift.00:57:41.039 --> 00:57:43.679


I just I really don't want to waste any of them.00:57:43.840 --> 00:57:44.960


There's so few.00:57:45.280 --> 00:57:47.280


Yeah, you you have to love fate.00:57:47.519 --> 00:58:03.519


And I'm I'm reminded of uh a nice story I came across where there was someone who was at the the horri horribly um old age of 30, I believe it was.00:58:03.840 --> 00:58:08.639


And just feeling like it was all over, they were all washed up, that was the end.00:58:09.039 --> 00:58:39.519


And someone had the kindness to uh have them think about what it would be like for the 90-year-old version of themselves to think about how every day that they had up and you know, that followed was more than a second chance because you know they uh they got to really seize the day uh for another 60 years.00:58:39.599 --> 00:58:41.519


And what a gift is that.00:58:42.960 --> 00:58:44.159


Yeah, yeah.00:58:44.960 --> 00:58:55.119


When I hear somebody that's getting ready to turn 30 talking about their life is over, I have literally said to them, don't make me bitch slap you.00:58:56.559 --> 00:59:00.800


Yes, it's it is annoying, it's really annoying.00:59:01.360 --> 00:59:03.280


Little do they know, but that's okay.00:59:03.440 --> 00:59:05.039


We didn't know either at 30.00:59:05.280 --> 00:59:08.639


Yeah, but I don't remember thinking my life was over at 30.00:59:08.960 --> 00:59:10.079


I don't either.00:59:10.400 --> 00:59:12.719


But we maybe we're from a different time.00:59:13.119 --> 00:59:14.400


We were, yeah, we are.00:59:14.639 --> 00:59:15.920


You know, they have everything.00:59:16.079 --> 00:59:27.519


I do feel sorry for them, the 30-year-olds in particular, because social media, while it has been very good, they can look anything up, they can know anything they want to know.00:59:27.760 --> 00:59:37.920


They've also been thrust into this world of comparison and the highlight reel of everybody's life rather than reality.00:59:38.000 --> 00:59:43.599


And it must, I mean, I do think it weighs differently on them.00:59:44.159 --> 00:59:46.000


You know, it can.00:59:46.320 --> 00:59:54.800


Yeah, I imagine it would because you know, when I was young, you only had it in your head what was happening, and now you can actually see it.00:59:54.880 --> 00:59:59.840


And if it's just the highlight reel, I mean, I've been going through um foreclosure.01:00:00.320 --> 01:00:03.840


On my house, and somebody saying, Oh, I'm so glad to see you're doing so well.01:00:04.079 --> 01:00:12.239


Because I was self-promoting, and they, you know, the truth was my house was in foreclosure, but you only know the highlight reel.01:00:12.639 --> 01:00:18.000


So social media, while it's wonderful, it is not the whole picture.01:00:18.079 --> 01:00:23.760


And we and the younger generation is just has to be is just in it, you know.01:00:24.079 --> 01:00:26.639


Yeah, they don't really get that it's not the whole picture.01:00:26.880 --> 01:00:27.760


Exactly.01:00:28.000 --> 01:00:28.320


Yeah.01:00:28.480 --> 01:00:28.800


Yeah.01:00:29.280 --> 01:00:30.159


Well said.01:00:31.199 --> 01:00:32.559


Well, this has been amazing.01:00:32.880 --> 01:00:33.599


It's been lovely.01:00:33.760 --> 01:00:34.559


Thank you for having me.01:00:34.800 --> 01:00:35.920


I have I have loved this.01:00:36.079 --> 01:00:42.480


Thank you so much for um being just so open with what's going on with you.01:00:42.719 --> 01:00:52.000


You know, it's it couldn't be an easy thing to talk about, yet you you you made it feel very, very easy.01:00:52.159 --> 01:00:54.880


Like I really do sense your your level of peace.01:00:55.119 --> 01:01:02.559


And that in and of itself, that energy that you have left in this space right now will be a gift to every listener.01:01:03.119 --> 01:01:03.760


Thank you.01:01:04.000 --> 01:01:08.559


I do I am very much at peace, which is you know, what a blessing.01:01:08.800 --> 01:01:15.599


Just can't even imagine, you know, my 30-year-old self whose life was over.01:01:15.679 --> 01:01:16.639


No, I'm just kidding.01:01:16.800 --> 01:01:23.280


But, you know, I did go through a divorce in my early 30s and I had two young kids, and it it is can be overwhelming.01:01:23.360 --> 01:01:34.480


And so it's nice to remember to pay attention to the sunsets and the way the light's hitting something, and you know, just take in all the little moments because dream anyway.01:01:34.639 --> 01:01:35.679


What else is there?01:01:36.000 --> 01:01:37.840


Yeah, exactly.01:01:38.719 --> 01:01:40.400


Well, thank you so much.01:01:40.639 --> 01:01:41.440


Thank you.