#072: When Self-Sacrifice Stops Working: A Creative’s Journey to Power on Purpose With Kimia Penton

Welcome And Meet Camille

Hey, welcome to another edition of the For the Love of Creatives podcast. You've got your connections and community guys hosts, Maddox and Dwight, here. And today we're joined by the lovely Camille Penton. Welcome, Camille.

Hi, Dwight. Hi, Maddox. Thank you so much for having me. I'm really excited for the conversation.

Well, we're so glad that you're here. We are so excited to be in your presence, at least virtually, again. Would you care to share just a little bit about who you are with our listeners?

Sure, I'd love to. I would say at the heart of it, I'm a communicator. I love building community and meaningful connection. And I do that in a variety of ways, whether it's through my lifelong musicianship or songwriting, which is designed for self-reflection and empowerment and community building, or my work in organizational psychology or running the project management office, which I love because you get to interact with everybody in the organization, bring them together for a shared goal, and you get to kind of love on the folks on the team. Or whether it's through my nonprofit work or being faculty around project management, again, helping people to bring their ideas to life, execute it well to get their goals met. So really I would say I communicate through a variety of ways: music, speaking, teaching, writing, uh, through my books, just as a way to help connection, share ideas, and uh bring folks closer together and closer to their purpose and through living out their visions.

Gosh, you're not well accomplished at all, are you?

I don't do downtime very well, I must confess that upfront. But but uh no, no, I I enjoy a lot of these things and I I love meeting new people and connecting.

We we have that in common.

That's right.

Very much so.

Well, and you know, on top of it all, I know that you have uh a wonderful family. We got to see uh your your lovely children at your your book launch.

Thank you. Yes, that they're adults now. I feel like I had the privilege of growing two of my closest friends. Uh, they're also very musical. Uh and I would say we're very close as a family, as a family unit, the family of four of us, and also my parents were very closely connected. And and family is a huge part of our culture. And I I feel very grateful that it's uh a very harmonious group of people with a lot of like interest. That definitely helps.

Yeah, that's not always the case, is it? No, no. You're very fortunate.

Yes. Thank you.

Love As A Daily Leadership Choice

Well, I I know that you uh spoke a lot about what it is to um what it is to to work in some places that might be uh I guess very structured and follow certain scripts, but you you mentioned the word love. And you know, we we love the word love. It's uh it's part of the name of our podcast. Um could you tell me a little bit about how it is that that that's your your orientation when it comes to those otherwise crispy spaces?

Yeah, and you know, part of it might be cultural. Um, I would say being originally Middle Eastern and being this Middle Eastern mama and wanting to care for folks. And I think the other part of it too is just wanting to understand where people from different walks of life are coming from. And if you can understand and put yourself in their shoes, then you have compassion and you want to express love and compassion and care to help people rise above what it is that they're going through and to help them be encouraged and empowered and motivated to find their best self and bring their best self, whether it's at work or whether it's at home, so that they can be the most fulfilled. And then in being the most fulfilled, then they have the most impact. Right. And then that kind of feeds itself. You have impact, then you have fulfillment, then you feel good about yourself. And people who feel good about themselves want others to feel good about themselves. So I think if you treat people that way, then hopefully it has a ripple effect. They're happier and they treat others the same way. So I think I think uh we need to be more about love, less about judgment, less about criticism, and more about finding commonalities and common ground and bringing people together.

Oh, Kimmy, I couldn't agree more. And you're really bumping up on a core value of everything we do, especially here on the podcast. And that is the you're describing a form of uh becoming, you know, that that that cycle that when you treat people well and you love them instead of judging them, and you know, that makes you feel good, and the next thing you know, it inspires you to uh have a bigger impact. And it it's this cycle that that is like a snowball rolling downhill, basically, isn't it?

Absolutely, and I think that really comes from a sense of self-love and self-awareness and and what I like to call this journey to self-mastery that we're all on. Because if you can have a bit of a giggle about yourself or things that you perceive as your own shortcomings, or or you know, not worry about embarrassment, but just be authentic and vulnerable and not not get embarrassed easily or be harsh on yourself. But it's also easier to extend that to other people. So I think the root of all of that really is that self-love and self-acceptance, and then it overflows to be an example, uh, an empowering example for others as well. And it really enriches your relationships as well. It makes you a safe person, which I think is quite a privilege to be considered a safe person in someone else's life, a trusted ally in someone else's life, an advocate for someone else, when folks really let you in. And as they're becoming, they have the courage to let you see them. Um, it's really beautiful to be part of that transformational journey for someone else.

Well, and I I can't help but be really taken with how uh in just the short introduction that you gave, you you spoke about some of the the ways that you have expressed yourself. But I I think that I I just have to say that you're incredibly modest because I I got to see some of your gifts on display and I got to hear your wonderful voice. My goodness, you have your you have the voice of an angel. And I I I think it's just one of those things where it's another way that you get to see the world gets to see your true self uh expressed. And uh I I have to compliment you on being such a calming presence.

Thank you, Dwight. That's very kind uh and it means a great deal. Thank you.

Across Cultures And Redefining Home

You you made a comment a minute ago, Kimmy, about I can't I can't say it verbatim, it's not my long suit, but something about meeting different people and and uh honoring who they are and accepting them, people that are different than you and learning how to get along. And you know, you you came to this country as an immigrant, and you were probably exposed to all kinds of, I mean, America's known as the melting pot. You know, all kinds of cultures and different ways of being that were so different than where you came from. What words of wisdom do you have? Because I I believe this is what humanity needs more than anything right now. And this topic is very near and dear to my heart. And so if I get emotional, you you'll know why. Um I I, you know, Dwight and I both really believe that the more the more diversity that you bring into your life, the happier your life and and the more interesting your life are it is gonna be.

Yeah, absolutely. What a great point and much needed point to discuss. So, yes, I would say, yes, I was an immigrant as a young adult, as a student to the United States, but I've been an immigrant multiple times. I'll say if life has kind of thrust me around. I've had six international moves in my life. And the first time I was an immigrant was as a young child to the UK. I mean, I'm originally Persian and my parents uh left and moved to the UK with me as a toddler, as the firstborn daughter in the home. And um, I've had six international moves overall, and I've been to about 33 countries, worked on three continents. And I've been the new girl a lot. I've been the new kid a lot. And um I've had to find ways to learn quickly and adjust. And so being from that traditional Middle Eastern home where we have a lot of hospitality, loyalty, family values, some traditional values, then growing up in the UK and Europe with the quality of education I had there, with the arts track in parallel, performing arts, music, exposure to fantastic, I would say, best, uh best in class classical music training, which really blessed my life and shaped my life, to moving as a young adult to the United States, leading teams at a Fortune 10 uh for the last 10 years and multiple moves back to the Middle East. It's been quite a lot. Um, it really stretches you, but one resounding theme through all of it has been that we have far more in common than we don't. There are universal human themes that it doesn't matter how old you are, where you're from, what you've experienced, that we all feel and we all go through the same. We have universal themes across the board globally that when push comes to shove matter to all of us the same way. And I've been profoundly touched by the generosity and hospitality of folks from everywhere I've moved. I've learned something from every culture I've been in. And I didn't realize how much it had developed me and brought growth until a recent acquaintance sat me down. He said, Yeah, I've really been thinking about you, Kimmy, of something's a little different about you. I mean, you do things differently, you just kind of jump in and get on with it. And your home is a place where everybody feels at home. And he said, I think what it is is you are at your core the combination of three massive cultures. You have the Middle Eastern heart to love on people and have hospitality, and you're always trying to feed us and you're always trying to care for us, and you're this Middle Eastern mama to your kids and everyone else's kids. But then you have structure and discipline of the British education and the art education you have there. And I thought, oh yeah, I run PMO, I love to get things done. And then he said, you've developed confidence and that gumption and the ability to have this pioneering spirit that is huge as part of the American dream, where the Brits might be more reserved or the Persians might have a lot of humility. And when he expressed it to me that way, I thought, wow, what a privilege in these changes and these seasons that was so hard in each of those moves. That when you navigate them and you learn for them, they work for your long-term good. And you become this person that understands that home is not a place, it's people. And you can create and provide home for others wherever they need it, in whatever circumstance you're in. So those recent conversations really touched me and brought gratitude to what have not always been easy transitions or joyful transitions in my life, right? You move, you're missing your people, and I love my people. But now I have an amazing global network that I keep up with, thanks to modern technology. So yeah, lots of gratitude, a bit of a long-winded answer, but you touched on something that's very near and dear to my heart. Um, and I encourage I encourage everybody to travel uh if and when they're able, and to diversify their friend group and learn about other cultures. It will enrich your life.

You know what I mean? I think it's oh, go ahead, Dwight.

No, I I I think that it's just the length that it needed to be because it it captures how you have had to deal with with what it was that was your life circumstances, and you've handled it with grace.

Well, and you very gracefully redefined what home means. Yeah. In in the most beautiful way. Home is not a building. Home is not a town or a city. Maybe down the hierarchy it is, but first and foremost, home is the people. Home is the people that you choose to bring into your life.

Music, Movement, And Joyful Learning

Absolutely, absolutely. And I will say on people, that's where I am I'm an intentional person in general because I I really value using our time, energy, resources well. The area I am the most intentional about is people. And I've learned to um select my circles and communities I'm involved with intentionally and by design. And again, love those people and care for them well and prioritize the people in my life over the other trappings or or goals or or headings or titles that can come. And that's created a very fulfilling and joyful life.

You know, that that was something that was pretty evident about you right away. You know, we could see and feel the the people around you and the way everybody responded to you. Um there was absolutely no doubt how loved you are.

And that's that's a mirror. That's that's a reflection of you. Thank you, my friend. Thank you.

Yeah, when we when we were in that theater, it had the the kind of um resonance and the kind of um just latent energy that you would find in a house of worship.

And it was because Oh, I love that. I love that.

Yeah, people were were definitely there to to celebrate with you and to take part in in something that really was a special event.

Yeah, thank you. And and uh it was wonderful, and and of course, you're referring to the book release party and concert, because anything that I work on, I I love to have music incorporated so that there's a movement, there's joy. Music impacts our learning and unlocks our emotions and impacts our brain like nothing else. So anytime I'm passionate about a message, which of course was the whole theme of the book, power on purpose, which is all of us stepping into our power and living our purpose intentionally for fulfillment and impact. Um, I wanted all of those themes: music, featuring my friends, having some movement and dancing throughout the event, kind of in a curated event to help with that learning, so that it's not like lecture style. I mean, I'll be honest, I'll say I'm pretty nerdy. I'm also very, very happy with long, long lectures. Like I want to know, I'm a lifelong student. I will sit and sit and study and study. I mean, my brain just works that way, and I love sharing that knowledge. But um, I think our task as folks who like to learn things is to make it fun and accessible for others to get interested in those things. Right. So um I um it was a lot of fun, and I think what really excited me about the release and the attendance that was there, and there was not an empty seat in the house, is yes, that my community showed up for me because they were excited and they know me and we do life together. But more importantly, they showed up for themselves to say, I'm in on this movement and this mission, to step into my power, to walk in my purpose, to say, yes, I want to have an impactful and fulfilling life and live with joy and love. And I don't want to be this hamster on a wheel. I don't want somebody else to define my path for me. I'm gonna take my power, I'm gonna live my life with joy. And there are there's this whole theater full of like-minded people who can do it with me. You know, and I always say that to new people I meet hey, if you're looking for friends or like-minded people, I share some of mine because I have a good group and and and come on in and join the fold and have community and find momentum as you're becoming and and as you're elevating yourself. And as you're elevating yourself, bring others along with you. So I think that's what really has touched me and stayed with me about the event. People came for transformation and because they said, yes, I'm ready to do the work on myself. And and nothing gets me more excited than that. People's breakthroughs are are really what are kind of keep me up at night and have me do my little happy dance with my little dog and cat at home when I turn up the music. So it was a beautiful, beautiful night that I will treasure.

It it was, and and we were delighted that you invited us. You know, we were we were very excited to come just be there and just be and check it all out and hear more about your book. I would love it if you would share just a little bit more about the book for our listeners. And just so the listeners know, there will be a link in the show notes for thank you.

Power, Purpose, And Self-Mastery

So power on purpose is it's a lot of life story. It's been probably 40 years in the making, so in my life, but really it's about I started thinking through writing it when I wanted to share some of the lessons that I had learned. So it starts reflecting with childhood, of course, family of origin, cultural, societal expectations. We all grow up with some expectations of what our identity should be. And sometimes we don't get a chance to grow out of that and really step into our own authenticity and identity and our own power. So sometimes it takes a little bit longer. For me, it took a little bit longer to have the courage to say, I'm gonna break out of this firstborn Persian girl cultural expectation to be a people pleaser and all about others, and also be about myself in parallel with that. Took me a long time. Some of my friends got there sooner. But it's really about identifying who you are at your core, at your core. What are you here to do? What are the obstacles that may have prevented you from doing that? And how can you develop that self-mastery to really thrive in your own identity? Again, for what I call in the book global impact, which we can now have thanks to the wonderful technology when it's used well. So we look at your power and identity and authenticity at home, then as you grow in society, in your friend circle, in your community, then in the workplace in organizations, because there are a lot of power dynamics that we need to navigate there. And you can be a strong advocate and a strong leader in the workplace while still being compassionate, sharing love and light, not um damaging other people's success or well-being in the workplace by building them up. So modeling appropriate authentic leadership. And I call that radical in the book because uh there's so much performance that happens in organizations today. And then from that expanding to what we call your power on purpose in the world for the good of anybody you interact with. You should be able to joyfully be an example. And I'll say when I say joyfully be an example, I don't I don't mean we're always joyful, right? But you should be comfortable to be yourself congruent in all settings that you're in, in all seasons that you're in. So we look in. Yeah, right. And it takes courage, it takes a lot of courage. It is far easier to just smile and nod and Just be compliant and not have that difficult conversation. But that's not kind. Censoring yourself and falling into people pleasing and just being nice and wanting to be liked, that's actually not kind. If you're kind, you'll tell somebody the truth in a loving way that helps their growth when the relationship is there. And you'll advocate for what's right with integrity. And you'll stand up for others when they aren't able to do it for themselves, even if it's hard to do. So there's strength and you do it compassionately, but it's still strength, right?

Yeah, I and I think we can all appreciate that. I mean, I I can't tell you the number of times that I've heard about people who have shared their personal growth where they were in positions where they were leading a team and they thought at the time they were being kind because rather than give uh some um maybe hard-to-hear feedback, they would take things as being good enough and you know just move on with it. Whereas they robbed people of the opportunity to grow, to improve. And, you know, just to keep it at a very simple level that anyone can relate to, I think that we all would appreciate it if someone saw that we had spinach in our teeth or that our our fly was open, that they would say something before we went out into the world.

Kind Truth And Real Feedback

Well, I love that's a great way to say it in our personal lives and our professional lives. And I've I've been quite hurt at work in the past, where a leader or a manager would have just told me, Oh, yeah, yeah, this is great. Yeah, you're doing great all year. And then comes year-end performance review. And all of a sudden you're blindsided with, Well, I needed you to do more of this, I needed you to do more of this. And you're thinking, where were you the whole year? You just didn't want to have the conversation or take the time to do coaching. Right? So, and it's it's it's quite hurtful. So I think it's worse to surprise people by holding withholding information that can help them, when you have the opportunity to enter into a relationship and have meaningful connection, and instead you fake it and you perform, and then you suddenly pull the rug out from under them. It's the same way personally, when you think a personal relationship is absolutely fine and the person's not saying anything, then all of a sudden you're ghosted or they're done with you, or you're broken up with, or your family's fallen apart, and they've just been holding on to it. Or that is not it, it's not worth it. It's not appropriate to treat people that way.

Integrating Feminine And Masculine Energy

Kimia, you you are very, very effectively demonstrating why I say that the world, we need more feminine energy in high places. Oh. We need it in corporations, we need it in religion, we need it in government, we need it everywhere. More feminine energy because that's what you're bringing to the table right now. You don't rarely ever do you hear a man talk in the way you're talking, unless they're a man like me that's really in touch with their feminine energy.

Right. Yep. Yeah, that it does make a lot of sense, I will say that, and and I agree with you, and I say I support organizations that empower women in leadership to partner and collaborate with our male counterparts so that we can complement, right? Because you need an equal balance of both. So I completely agree. And when there's mutual respect and we allow each other to operate in our strengths, then things run in the best way.

I I I had an epiphany here a year or two ago where I realized that until we could take masculine energy and feminine energy and integrate them in a harmonious manner in every area of humanity, we will not have peace. Not fully.

That I I 100% agree. 100% agree with you. Um, and I'll tell you, I'll share with you a wonderful organization. I think you you both enjoy, and I'll send you the link after our conversation. There's a wonderful group called the Social Innovation Global Ethics Forum that's based in Malta, that was set up from some retired from some gentlemen who were investment bankers in Switzerland, who have this epiphany that, hey, we need to support for there to be more balance in women as policymakers and women as executive corporate leaders. So let's create this forum and let's uh shine a light uh on women, global change makers, they called the women around the world, and let's empower them and let's give them the spotlight and the microphone, and let's put in place programs that can support uh these growth efforts. And I was introduced to them last summer through my friend Elizabeth, went to Malta and had the privilege of being on the panel, and I'll be back this uh later this year to go to uh Malta and speak with them. It's an annual thing, and we it's a wonderful global community with the same vision that you've shared that I think you would really enjoy. So there are some great groups all over that are recognizing this. And you know what I was touched about by all of the women there that presented it was we are not here to compete with our male peers or the men in our lives. We love them, we appreciate them. Many of them have been our sponsors. We just want to to have equal opportunity and we want to complement and have uh an opportunity to impact as well. And I found that to be a very supportive and healthy view that I could get behind.

I love that. Yes, we're interested. You know, I'd love to know what you think about this. This is all concept of of my own making. I I went through a process, I don't know how long ago, sometime during the pandemic, where I internally, it wasn't an external thing, like literally male and female, because feminine and masculine don't determine gender. You know, I my battle was my masculine energy and my feminine energy had been warring my whole life. And when I finally figured that all out and looked at how that was affecting my being, I did not have peace. I was there was this internal war going on all the time. And when I did what I needed to do to integrate those two energies internally within me, it changed everything. And that's where I believe it needs to start. Or maybe it doesn't. Maybe it needs to start with putting women in higher places, and I, you know, there it's two different levels, internal, external. But I'd love to know what you think about what I just shared about that personal integration of masculine and feminine energy and how that can change everything.

Well, what a tremendous, I would say, self-awareness and courage to do that inner work, which is really the only way we can grow. What I'm curious about is when you say that your masculine and feminine energy were kind of warring against each other, is that because of external expectations? Is it part of upbringing of thinking that you had to express one more than the other? What were some of the causes for that? Because I think that will help me understand the line of questioning. It's really fascinating.

Why Inner Conflict Kills Creativity

I I grew up in a small Texas town in the 70s. And I actually came out as gay in 1980 in a small Texas town in central Texas, and small Texas town is redundant, but anyway, um that was almost unheard of. You know, when I mean I there was a time before I even knew what I was because I knew I was different, but I didn't know anything about homosexuality. I didn't know anything about gay. And I had these feelings all going on inside of me, and I thought I must be the only person in the whole world that feels this way. And I knew that it was something that would not be embraced. I mean, there there is back then it was nothing like that is now. Back then, it was not something you talked about. You know, families disowned their their children, churches removed them from the from the congregation. Um I got lots of messages that it was not okay. And I was, from the day I came into the world, I was a feminine little boy.

And there was so much I got tortured for that.

But yet I knew that I will I related to the feminine energy way more than I I couldn't relate to the masculine energy, I just didn't know how. So any anytime anybody m brought the word masculine up, it made me uncomfortable. I would just completely withdraw in myself. I couldn't couldn't even go there. You know, and and through the years in the gay community, the whole, oh, are you a masculine gay or a feminine gay became this whole thing on all the dating apps? It tells your your your name and maybe your age, and then you got a state. Are you a masculine or a feminine? Which made me, I mean, there was such an identity around that, and it made me incredibly uncomfortable. Because most of the men were saying they preferred a masculine man, and that was not me. So there was a lot of. I mean, you would think, being a man, that I would identify with the masculine energy better, but I did not. I identified with the feminine energy better.

Yeah.

But there was that moment sometime. I mean, I'm I was well into my 60s when this came about, mid-60s, when I just had this moment one day where I sat down and started writing on a piece of paper about masculine and feminine energy, and and just how that and it all by the time I got to the end of the page and I'd written it, I stopped and I read it and I cried. And in that moment, there was this sigh of relief. It's hard to even explain. In that moment, I embraced both.

They weren't fighting anymore, and I wasn't pushing one away anymore because it made me so uncomfortable.

Uh I I love that, and thank you for sharing.

And I'm deeply sorry to hear the pressures you felt in childhood and the those external expectations and that sense of you know not being able to be fully yourself and be fully accepted because that's very painful in those years where identity and that sense of self is forming. And even to grow into adulthood and in the gay community, still continue to see labels and say, Well, well, hey, well, where do I fit here as well? So it, you know, it kind of continues regardless of the circle or situation you're in. And and but I what I find too is Maddox, in just the conversations we've had and in meeting you in person, um I think a lot of what you personally experience has now manifested in what has become this deep compassion and acceptance and love of others.

Yes.

And this desire for inclusivity and community building and connection. And that's highly commendable because often you see folks will then say, well, forget all of this, and I'm gonna walk around and be bitter, and I'm gonna walk around and just be angry, and I've been hurt, so I'm gonna hurt others. But really, the the path that that is better serving to us and to others is to do that internal work, come to our self-acceptance, and decide to not treat others or allow others to feel how we have felt in the past, but respond by putting out good, kindness, love, community, inclusivity, and reassurance for for others. And I it's beautiful and impressive, you know, to see how that has shaped you and allowed you to have this wonderful platform and community and be somebody who wants to love on others, which is also you know, so uh in aligned with my mission of I think the more we can bring love, acceptance, and support others in their healing, the healthier the world will be all around. So thank you for sharing that.

Well, and I I just want to call out for our beloved listeners who may be thinking right now, what the heck does this have to do with creativity? And I would say everything. Everything. You know, how can you be fully in your creative self when you have a war going on inside of you? For whatever reason, it could be a lot of other things, it might have nothing to do with masculine and feminine. We all from time to time have had wars going on inside of us that drain our energy and take us out of what we're here to do, which is to create. Yeah, when it was in halves. But the minute you put it together like this, shazam, and the magic happened. And that's what I feel like happened. And that affected, you know, our creative life is our life. You can't separate them. And that changed my life, and therefore it changed my ability to fully create.

Breaking People Pleasing With Boundaries

100% agree. You said that so beautifully, right? And it is completely tied to creativity because you cannot create and put things out there if you're not fully integrated and authentic and living in alignment. Right. And you can, I would say you can go through difficult seasons and create things out of pain or shock or grief, or you can still express those things in meaningful and profound ways. But if you are not in alignment and you're not fully authentic, and if you don't do away with performance and replace it with being fully present, you cannot create and contribute at your best.

Right?

So that's why we we have a whole I have a whole chapter on it in the book where I talk about unlearning, unlearning everything I was told I was supposed to be, unlearning the idea that I just I had to be this doormat to take care of everyone else and um minimize myself and silence my own inner voice and silence the ideas that I had for the sake of everyone else's comfort. And it was a painful process for me. And I would say when I kind of hit my breaking point and breakdown in my early 30s, I was already married. I had two beautiful young children at the time, and I and um and I stood by all of my decisions. I I loved being a wife and a mom. But the way I was doing it, the way I was handling work, the way I was living as a daughter, the way I was living as a wife and a mom, the way I was in my friend group was entirely, excessively self-sacrificing and detrimental to me because of my inability to stand in my authenticity, advocate for myself in a balanced way. And as I was trying to navigate that, and I had this breakdown because I was just so tired of being the strong person for everyone else and being there for everyone else. First of all, no one in my life knew how to handle if I had a bad day. Because I just had never shown that before. I just kept taking it and taking it, whatever everyone else needed. So when I started trying to express myself and learn healthy boundaries and live in congruence and create the way I felt I needed to create and express, it was a little bit challenging because I it was, I almost had to fight for that. And then all of a sudden, like people were seeing this harsh side of me where generally speaking, I'm I'm very gentle in how I communicate, I'm very optimistic, and I, you know, just want to make sure everything's going well. But there was um this whole other side of me came out that no one in my life had seen before, which I understand now, uh, many years after the fact was a fight for myself and an advocacy for myself where no one else in my life had done that for me before. So I literally was like this internal like screaming of there is someone in here that needs to get out that has been suppressed to keep to be compliant, to keep everyone else happy. And this advocacy had to burst out to allow me to be fully seen and then try to find that balance and fully integrate in my relationships again.

It was literally a rite of passage.

Yes, yes.

Yes, yes. You could not have skipped that part.

Exact exactly, exactly. And I I would say too, it's you go through a lot of emotions when you're looking at the past and the things that shaped you, or the things that hurt you, or the ways you feel you were minimized or you were silenced, and you go through all kinds of emotions: anger, frustration, resentment, blame, um, and um disappointment, and then often disappointment with self. And then as you do the work and you identify, which again is the theme of the book, it's it's the self-mastery, the self-awareness, owning your journey, recognizing the past, but being intentional to holistically define your future by stepping into your power. As you process it all, the conclusion that I came to was everybody in my life has been doing the best they can with what they knew at the time. Whether it was for survival, whether it was for acceptance, whether it was for financial need, whatever they were going through. And they were also repeating learned behavior patterns and behavior and expectations that they grew up with. And I also had to forgive myself for living out learned patterns and not advocating for myself sooner, right? So when you realize everybody's trying to figure it out, for the most part, it was say there was no, I'm I'm very privileged and grateful to say there was no intentional abuse or anybody trying to hurt me. It was just cultural learned behaviors where we're all trying to navigate in my case. When I realized that it is, and when I realized everybody's doing the best they can with what they know, and now let's rise above and do better. It allowed me to just respond with compassion. Like I could work on myself without rebelling against my whole family, without decimating everything I'd built, without feeling like, you know, I had to completely lose it in order to find my way. We could do it with compassion. And those that wanted to be part of my growth stuck around in my life. Those that didn't want to see me have healthy boundaries grow and thrive were welcome to exit. And I call that a healthy end.

Oh, yes.

You're gonna bless and go, bless you, move on in your chapter because I'm rising above. And if we're gonna rise together, I'm all in with you. If you want to keep me in that old pit, I want nothing to do with it. I'm gonna bless and go in peace and keep my peace of mind and be intentional about my tribe. And the funny thing was, while this was like for my for my parents who I adore, they found it a little odd because all of a sudden I was very vocal. Years later, they were like, Oh, show me how you gave that response. How can I use a similar response with this relative or in this situation? Or how can I say this in this volunteer situation? And and they have become the biggest advocates of this book that's telling my life story in lessons in leadership. And I just had uh um recently a call with my dad, an hour and a half, where he had questions and notes on the guidance I was giving in the book and asking me how he in his mid-70s can apply these things to his life.

So you're totally describing people having their own personal Harry Met Sally moment.

There you go. And you never know who, but but see, when you give yourself permission, the same way you gave yourself permission, Maddox, to be yourself and grow and focus on growth and transformation, but do it lovingly and compassionately, then you invite others to do the same for themselves instead of pushing them away.

You you just said the magic word, and I'm I'm I got a burning question here. People who choose to do growth and awareness and transformation work. There's a lot of people that I think think that that is optional. They don't choose to go down that path. I mean, I've in my lifetime, I have known more than than more don't to go down that path than do. So what's your take on that? Is it optional?

Transformation, Safety, And Meaningful Life

To me, with my belief system and view that fulfillment, joy, purpose comes from growth and transformation for the purpose of impact. If you want a meaningful life, transformational is not optional. I think what I have learned Can you say that again?

I love what you just said.

If you want yes, if you want a meaningful and impactful life, if you want a fulfilling life that makes impact, right? Transformation is not optional. However, I have learned it takes courage to do that work and it takes safety, it takes psychological safety, and we each get to that in varying degrees at different rates and at different paces. So if I have someone I love in my life who is completely closed off to transforming, I'm not gonna push them and I'm not gonna write them off, right? We don't write people off for just because they're, you know, they're going through their things. Um, I would say it's not optional if you want to get to your highest self and have impact for the highest good of humanity. But I extend grace again on love and care for it's an internal realization, and we cannot rush anyone else's timeline.

Beautifully said. I had that moment in 1985, and it came as quite a large surprise, and I it changed my life, you know, and I can't even imagine what life would be if I hadn't had that moment. I'm ever so grateful.

But was it painful and a bit scary at the time, though? I mean, it takes some courage and it takes some work, right? It's it's not like here I am, you know, all of a sudden.

Yes. It initially it was not scary or painful because I didn't know what I was getting into. Um, it it was just curious at first. And and then after I got in a little bit deeper and started to dig around, yes, it got painful, it got really challenging, and it took a lot of courage. But you could offer me, you could offer me billions of dollars right now to take it all away. And I would say no.

There you go.

I mean, there's no amount of money that you could offer me and say, but you've got to go back and be the person that you would have been in 1985 if you hadn't made the choice that you made.

Alchemy, Impact, And Closing Words

There you go. See, but being honest with ourselves takes courage and it takes work, and it takes the willingness to work through the pain, the disappointment, the emotions to come out on the other side. But shoving things under the rug and ignoring it and living in pain, living out of congruence, living in denial, not only is it emotionally and spiritually stifling, right? These unprocessed emotions can also have physical manifestations on our body, on ourselves. Oftentimes sickness comes as resentment builds you. I mean, it just holding on to things that we're not meant to hold on to. Have devastating effects. That's it. Even stress, we've heard how much about medical research about how stress is a killer. So taking care of the mind, body, spirit, emotional well-being holistically, having the courage to do the work, right? It takes work and it takes having what you guys are all about of community and connection and support group and safety to explore those things and go through. But like, like you said, like you mentioned, all of us on this call, when we're out on the other side of it, of this kind of um uh of this awareness, then you never want to go back. You cannot go back, and you become so excited about empowering other people to walk fully in their power on purpose, which is the whole concept, the whole concept of the book. So it's uh you get excited about being a support. And I mentioned earlier in this conversation of I always consider it an honor when someone pulls me in to pick my brain, trust me with their transformation. And I've always been fascinated. So in graduate school at the University of London, studying organizational psychology, transformational leadership was my favorite topic to research because it's facilitating as a leader transformation in the organization by doing the work with your people. But in my personal life, too, I think it's it's so empowering. And interestingly, my name in in the Farsi in the Persian heritage uh where I'm from, Kimiyah, um, is the art of alchemy. And um, the whole process, so even my my name is about that transformational catalytic process, the art of alchemy. And I've been fascinated with that my whole life. I've been fascinated with it in the Persian culture and the stories about that. And as I look back, I see that the times that have given me the most joy, why I value expressing creativity, I value writing music and producing my albums, touring, connecting with people, is these things give you opportunity to come alongside and support it as a catalyst for those who are ready for their transformation and seeing them kind of set themselves ablaze like that Phoenix rising from the ashes and move on to produce the phenomenal great work they're supposed to for the good of all of us. That is just it's really cool to be a part of. Really cool.

I must agree fully. Wow.

And I I must uh compliment you on providing the light that people need to come out of their darkness, whether it's through your music or through power on purpose. It's it can be really hard for someone that is suffering in a hard place to have a means of getting out. And for anyone that's stuck in that suffering, it can leave a stain. It can have such a headwind. And I I think that by sharing your story uh for those people who find it, it gives them a path to get back to something that uh has them join the the world of the living and and be able to find their own light again.

Make me tear up there with I w as I went through my transformation, I wrote a song called I'm Alive Again. I felt like I was back in the land of the living. So so thank you for touching on that, Dwight.

The world needs more kemias. Thank you, my friend. What an amazing conversation. Do you have anything else you'd like to share before we wrap up?

I think what I what I would love to share is to anybody who's listening, who's going through something that feels like it is insurmountable or cannot see the light at the end of the tunnel. I want to encourage them to say you are not alone in it. And you can and you will get through it. You just do it one day at a time. One day at a time. Keep fighting and advocating for yourself. And I just want to send big, massive Middle Eastern Brit Mama love to everybody who's tuning in, and just lots of love and gratitude to you both, Maddox and Dwight, for inviting me for this wonderful, wonderful conversation with you both.

It's been a complete pleasure.

Yes.

An amazing conversation. And I I don't know, I'm feeling compelled to add to what you said, and that is ask for the help and support that you need. That's what compute community is about. It's hard for us to do that sometimes. It's a practice thing, though.

If you practice it, it gets easier. Thank you, Kimmy.