#021: Finding Your Artistic Voice When Cultural Expectations Say Otherwise With Mukund Kuntimad

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so I decided to just do some research.

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I research schools, like especially with it, with animation, and I've stumbled upon a few options.

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And then one option popped out, a school I'd never heard of.

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It was called, uh, the rochester institute of technology.

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So I did some research and I was like, how have I never heard of the school?

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This is actually incredible.

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They have such a good program in animation.

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So I did some research and then, well then, I found out why I never heard of it.

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I, I live in texas and, uh, texas does not like to advertise schools outside of texas that much.

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Like you see ads for, like you, for ut and all and all the texas schools all the time.

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I I'm like, oh, I have never heard of RIT.

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So I apply again, not knowing what happened.

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And then months and months and months and months and months pass, and then I got a letter saying that, you know, I got accepted and again this whole light bulb went off.

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I'm like, oh great, what's happening?

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So I show this to my parents and once again they're very supportive.

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So I think it does come down to like the sheer effort I was putting into this to show that, yes, I want to do this.

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I'm getting in touch with people and I'm trying to apply for programs to better myself.

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I'd say that that did like prove to them, like because I have a drive for it.

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Hello, I'm Maddox and my co-host, Dwight, is with me today.

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This is For the Love of Creatives podcast, and today our guest is Makund Kuntamad.

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Woo-hoo, hello, welcome, makund.

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We're so glad to have you here today.

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So I guess I just want to tell the audience that the way we know you is probably.

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Maybe three or four weeks ago we were at a creative mixer here in town, the Tower Club, a beautiful space, lots of art, lots of cool people, and that's how we met Makund and we invited him, and here he is.

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That's how the magic happens, makund.

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I'm going to turn it over to you and let you introduce yourself to the audience, please yeah, so hi, my name is Makund.

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I'm a.

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I'm an artist, a 2d animator to be specific.

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Uh, yeah, so I met Maddox and Dwight at the Tower Club event.

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These guys were pretty awesome.

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They gave off like the best vibes when I met them.

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It was like super cool, and so I'm a creative.

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Like I said, 2d animator, I'm also a storyteller.

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I work on all stages of the animation pipeline, you know storyboarding, pre-production, post-production, all things like that, and overall I'd say I like to tell stories with my animation, make people laugh, make people cry, you know the whole gamut of emotions and I'd say, just taking those skills and merging things from both the past, the future and the present, you know, just tell amazing stories and awesome things overall.

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Sounds wonderful to me and we got the privilege of seeing some of his animation the night we met him and it's very unique.

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It's very unique and it was very playful and quite good.

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Yeah.

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Thanks.

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I appreciate that.

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Yeah, your sample was really engaging.

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I could have watched for hours.

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Oh well, if you wanted to watch for hours, I got so many dead, dead reels.

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But believe me, you'll be like what the hell am I watching?

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He can have plenty if he asks for it right?

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Oh yeah, Whether you want it, that's a different story.

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So I want to dive in with a question that we try to enter into each conversation a little bit differently and this may or may not apply, and it's okay for you to tell me if it doesn't apply.

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But my question is a cultural question.

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Every culture is a little bit different and I'm curious to know, culturally, your family, your friends and the people beyond, when you decided to become a creative and do what you do, was that something that, culturally, was an acceptable thing and was supported, or was that something that was frowned upon?

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Because we've certainly heard some stories where some cultures, if you know, there's a certain like thing you need to be to really be honored by that culture, and so I'm curious about your experience.

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Yeah, for sure, excuse me, my throat's acting up a little bit today.

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No problem acting up a little bit today, it's no problem.

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So, yeah, so, culturally, uh, my parents are immigrants from india.

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They came here in about the 1980s, so I'd say so, india does have like a very like rich history of like art, of art and creatives so like if you look at the ancient times and even the modern times, so much is being produced that's like so visually stunning and locate is one of the.

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It is honestly one of the.

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It is honestly one of the things that I'd say wanted me to make me be an artist at a young age, just seeing all this cool art, art from the indian subcontinent.

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I'd say like, as far as officially determining when I wanted to be a career artist, I'd say that can date back to maybe if I'm being generous maybe when I was in the eighth grade, when I was like doing like the typical you know comic strips for instead of you know doing my homework, yada, yada, yada.

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But yeah, so when I kind of expressed that towards my parents, like they never shot it down, let's say they never did shoot it down.

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They did like encourage me to do like art, but they always did kind of have this like hesitation in their minds where it's like, which is an understandable hesitation because you know artists we have it is going to lie.

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It is very, very tough, like to break out there and get noticed and overall it is the whole starving artist cliche comes from somewhere, am I right?

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So yeah, they did kind of try to push.

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You know like, okay, maybe make it a side thing and you know, maybe do something.

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You know like computer science or engineering, which actually I did, I did, I did, I actually got my first degree in computer science.

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So whether or not that was like the right thing to do, that's up for interpretation.

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Like I don't regret the computer science degree in the slightest, but I'd say there was always that hesitation where I'm like this isn't what I'm supposed to be doing in this whole degree.

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It's like I would try so hard to just like phase out what I was being heard and overall it definitely wasn't like the most enjoyable degree for me.

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Like I still got it done, don't get me wrong, but it was very much just like uh, why am I doing this?

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Overall I'm and the whole time I'm just kind of talking to my parents trying to convince them that you know, like it's a suitable career to be in animation and, again, they never did shoot it down, but it's very much like you know, the whole like passive, like try to like put this to the side.

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But overall, like I did kind of like whittle them down for lack of a better term, and like I'd say like the big breaking point I say was in 2019, when I found this program online.

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It was called don bluth university and don bluth is actually a, if you don't know, is a famous animator who worked at disney back in the gold, in the golden era, and he actually formed his own studio in the 1980s and he produced films like Land Before Time, american Tale, classics like that and I actually applied for his program.

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I didn't know what I was expecting, but I sent, I sent some side work, I did, I applied and next day I got a call from the university saying I actually got in and I'm like okay, what's going on?

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What's going on like the very next day I was like what?

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I was not expecting anything out of it, so I got the call and one thing I was terrified was I'm like what?

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I was not expecting anything out of it, so I got the call and one thing I was terrified was I'm like okay, I want to do this, but I'm still in college.

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I gotta tell my parents this how on earth am I gonna cheese this?

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So I decided you know what, you know what it's best for me to just suck it up and I go to my parents, I tell them I got into this and they were actually 100% supportive and I was like well, where, where was all of this?

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When I was younger.

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So I think there was kind of the subconscious thing, like the fact that I was so persistent about it.

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They're like okay, clearly this is what he wants to do.

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We shouldn't keep him from it.

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So so I do it.

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I do the whole program, I do great and obviously, like the whole, I've tried to explain them who don bluth is.

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All that like I just tried to do right now and I think they did.

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They did kind of like like okay, so this is an established guy.

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He took some interest in me and so I went to the program, did great in it and overall they liked it.

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And after the don bluth program, I finished in 2020s, which was obviously not the best time to finish, like we all remember, 2020, even though we don't want to, and there was supposed to be a master class at the end of it, but that got delayed indefinitely.

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Eventually it did happen in 2022, but again, lucky it happened.

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And after I finished that, it was a very much dead air.

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It was just dead air.

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I don't know what.

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What the hell was gonna go on.

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I couldn't like nobody was hiring for any jobs.

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I couldn't do anything.

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I couldn't go out and do anything.

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I was like, what am I gonna do?

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And on top of that, I'm just, you know, kind of just stuck here living with my parents seeing what's happening.

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So I was kind of looking for other options and for some reason I thought, well, why don't I just, you know, go to school again?

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So I decided to just do some research.

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I research schools, like especially with animation, and I stumbled upon a few options and then one option popped out, a school I'd never heard of.

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It was called the Rochester Institute of Technology.

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So I did some research and I was like, how have I never heard of this school?

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This is actually incredible.

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They have such a good program in animation.

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So I did some research and then, well then, I found out why I never heard of it.

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I live in Texas and Texas does not like to advertise schools outside of Texas that much.

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Like you see ads for, like UT and all the Texas schools all the time.

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I'm like, oh, I have never heard of RIT.

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So I apply again, not knowing what happened.

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And then months and months, and months, and months and months pass.

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And then I got, and then I got a letter saying that you know, I got accepted, and again this whole light bulb went off.

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I'm like, oh great, what's happening?

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So I show this to my parents and once again they're very supportive.

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So I think it does come down to like the sheer effort I was putting into this to show that, yes, I want to do this, I'm getting in touch with people and I'm trying to apply for programs to better myself.

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I'd say that that did like prove to them like because I have a drive for it, they know I'm going to make it work, and it did show them that this is, this is a viable option.

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So I'd say like, yeah, the cultural thing very much was was there, especially the stereotype you know like.

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You know you got to be an engineer, you got to be a CS guy, but at the end of the day, I don't think it matters too much there because, like, if you do want to be an artist, you should be an artist.

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Like, whether you do it for a career or not, it's just going to happen.

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Like things do just kind of will kind of happen for you that way.

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You just have to be persistent about it and you know, just keep practicing and getting better and you know if someone will notice you eventually or someone will give you the chance.

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And you just got.

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You just got to seize it.

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Well, you know, I think it's.

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It's amazing that the two things that you applied for you got snatched up, you know, with with both of them.

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That says a lot, especially the one that responded the next day.

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You know, I know you probably already know this, but we hear a lot of stories, and your story is one of the better stories when it comes to the cultural thing in family.

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We've heard some stories where the family never, ever, became supportive, never was okay with it, and we've even heard some where they said they were shunned by not only the immediate family but extended family as well, because it was like a place to shame on their family, for, you know, not being the right profession, and so I think you're really, really fortunate to have the parents that have supported you.

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Yeah, a hundred, a hundred percent.

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And then, unfortunately, I do know people who it hasn't worked out for too, unfortunately, and it what I do notice is like it really it really is sad Cause, like, again, it's the whole.

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It like is the whole cultural stereotype, you know it's, you know you gotta, you gotta do this, you gotta be this.

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One thing you have to go into into STEM, you have to do things like that.

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There's all those stereotypes.

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Again, it's like, yeah, that's one option, but guys, look at all this cultural art.

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It doesn't even matter what country it is.

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Every single country has a deep, deep, deep rooted history in the arts and the humanities and just overall, creative in general.

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It's the fact, and these stand the test of time too.

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It's like it's the fact, these and these stand the test of time too.

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It's like, if you look at, if you look at Asian countries, they have all these beautiful structures that are still standing, they have these gorgeous paintings that were made, and the fact that it's being discouraged now it's kind of disheartening because it's like, do you just want to put a stop to all of that?

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Like, did you just think?

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Like, okay, these are these because, like you know, this stuff has to, like evolve over time too right, Like more art does have to be produced.

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You can't just be satisfied with what was made Like same thing with, like science and technology, research, Like it's currently evolving, and so is art.

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So if you put a hard stop to that, then you're just not gaining anything out of that.

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So you do need to encourage creative sparks, not shut them down.

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I would love to know what you think, but here's my theory.

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I don't think we choose to be artists.

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I think that art chooses us.

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I 100% agree.

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You did not have a choice in this.

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You could deny who you were.

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You certainly had a choice to deny, but you were born to be an artist.

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I agree.

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I agree with that.

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Actually, you know, my parents actually said the same thing.

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Like they kept saying, like you know, we did try to like, push them towards other things, but they told me, like, from the day you were born, from the day you were a child, you showed artistic capabilities and presence and then you kept fighting for what you wanted.

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And then here you are are here you are today, you're animating, you're being doing exactly what you want to do.

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It's like, again, the path isn't what's important.

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The path can either be a straight line or it can literally be like a zigzag with loops.

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Uh, if you're familiar with a good place at jeremy, bear me even, but like, yeah, it's like the destination will be something, but like the path you get there, it's not the same for everybody.

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Everybody's journey is different because everyone's circumstance is different.

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Exactly, and it will be difficult.

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But what industry could you be in that?

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It wouldn't be difficult, it just would be a different kind of difficult.

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That's right.

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The starving artist thing may be a difficult thing to get seen and to get out there.

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But if you were in a corporate job, now you're dealing with a corporate machine and there's a whole set of challenges and things that are really hard.

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With that, there's nothing that we do in this life that's particularly easy.

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Exactly.

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So you just have to pick your pain, you know.

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Yeah, exactly, even with internalized within like.

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So let's narrow it down to animation in particular.

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So they say, it's true, nothing is inherently easier.

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Even if you think something is easier on the surface, it will pose more inherent challenges.

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One of the more fairly recent things I could think of is when animation did come into the 21st century.

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There was the whole like uh, so like cgi was fairly new at the time, and on the surface like, especially to like outsiders it was like oh, this is some, this is so much easier.

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It's like you don't have to draw hundreds of drawings, you just make a model, make it do stuff.

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And then there it's call it a day.

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Okay, well, great, you said take a model, make it do stuff.

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How do you make it do stuff?

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That's still animation, pal.

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It's like you're still going and acting in there.

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You're creating a performance, like, yeah, it's uh.

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It may appear easier because like it's all in a computer, but like the computer is just kind of a, it's a source, it's a, it's a thing that holds everything, it can help you with some little nitty gritties, but at the end of the day it's still.

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You're still taking that computer model and you're still making a performance out of it.

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You're just not drawing the drawings, you're just taking the puppet, the digital puppet, and you still have to create it.

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You still have to create a motion and then like it's still, it's still going to be inherently hard, it doesn't again.

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Nothing is inherently easy yeah, it's just a different um route, yeah, different path to mastery and, uh, I know that with anything that, any new skill that you acquire, there's got to be a point where you got to be good with not being great at it and get over that to actually make it to a point where you can make it sing no, yeah, don't, don't have to tell me twice about that.

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So go ahead.

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Dwight, I think it's great that you had the support of your parents, but I'm curious as to what it was like with the greater surrounding community, especially coming up and being this creative child.

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It wasn't easy, especially growing up.

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It wasn't easy especially growing up.

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So, just taking into account a lot of my peers that I interacted with in school growing up, I was obviously very, you know, I would just shelter myself off, do my drawings.

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The thing is I didn't really want to do that per se, I just kind of felt like I had to do that Because I always see the whole again, growing up I heard the stereotype, you know, you're the angsty artist who, like secludes themselves from everybody, the popular kids, all that stuff.

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But yeah, it definitely didn't do me any favors growing up Cause, you know, I was always seen as like the weird kid.

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It's like people like like my art but like again, like looking back on that art means I'm evolving but, like you know, like to take that into account, but, like you know, nobody actually wanted to interact with me per me per se because you know I was just being so weird, weird and closed off.

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But like, looking back, I think that was kind of a like a thing of circumstance in the sense that I did just kind of want to be, be different, you know, because, like a lot, of, a lot of my peers, I saw they were very much, you know, like trying to do the same things like a lot of my peers I saw.

00:17:24.945 --> 00:17:31.174
They were very much, you know, like trying to do the same things, like a lot of them were trying to do, honestly, what their parents wanted to for lack of a better term.

00:17:31.174 --> 00:17:41.583
It's like I'm not sure if they genuinely wanted to just like take the path they were doing, or it's just like their parents told them they have to take this path and that's what's happening and that's what's happening Now.

00:17:41.583 --> 00:17:42.923
Some people did genuinely enjoy them.

00:17:42.923 --> 00:17:46.626
I'm happy for them and obviously I don't know what everyone's up to now.

00:17:46.626 --> 00:17:49.710
So, for all I know, they took their own paths and you know what More power to you.

00:17:49.710 --> 00:17:50.691
That's amazing.

00:17:50.691 --> 00:18:09.038
But yeah, as a kid I just really did not want to be part of the whole cookie cutter mold thing and I'd say that at the end.

00:18:08.958 --> 00:18:09.474
Obviously I think it did work out for me.

00:18:09.474 --> 00:18:15.371
I don't really regret anything per se, but if I did have to go back and change one thing about me, I would say, just, you know, first of all I'd slap myself in the face for like okay, for that's for all the stuff you're gonna do between now and the point where I came in the future, like you'll know what I'm talking about when I see it.

00:18:15.371 --> 00:18:20.758
But I'd say like, first of all, stop closing yourself off and get out there, embrace who you are.

00:18:20.758 --> 00:18:23.741
You don't have to be what others tell you are, you know, and you know that.

00:18:23.741 --> 00:18:27.726
So embrace, it doesn't matter what everyone else is doing, just do what you want to do.

00:18:27.726 --> 00:18:33.431
And obviously, and the fact that I'm realizing that now, it really has encouraged me to go out and do what I wanted.

00:18:33.431 --> 00:18:38.555
Like I came to you guys' event right and I had a blast doing it, talking to people about art.

00:18:38.555 --> 00:18:41.257
Honestly, just a whole bunch of nerds art nerds talking about art.

00:18:41.257 --> 00:18:43.883
It was really amazing.

00:18:43.903 --> 00:18:47.327
You know, I think ownership is really important and that's what you're describing.

00:18:47.327 --> 00:18:53.505
You know people say, oh, you're not your job, and that's true.

00:18:53.505 --> 00:18:58.631
But when we're creatives it's not a job.

00:18:58.631 --> 00:19:03.804
I mean, in some regard it is, but I think it's for me.

00:19:03.804 --> 00:19:07.913
We start off having it be something that we do.

00:19:07.913 --> 00:19:25.692
You do animation, but there's a point where it becomes something you are, instead of I'm doing animation, I'm an animator, and when that ownership happens, everything shifts Universally.

00:19:25.692 --> 00:19:27.223
I mean, the universe reacts to that.

00:19:27.223 --> 00:19:38.382
I mean, do you recall you know the day that it went from me being somebody that did animation to really owning that you were an animator.

00:19:38.382 --> 00:19:39.384
Do you recall that?

00:19:41.028 --> 00:19:46.125
Um, I'd say I didn't really accept the fact that I, what I was an animator until I.

00:19:46.125 --> 00:19:53.048
I would say it wasn't until I, until I moved out of my house to go to Rochester for RIT Because I so.

00:19:53.048 --> 00:19:58.106
So I met, so I did the computer science degree, right, and then I ended off doing the Don Bluth program thing right.

00:19:58.106 --> 00:20:10.579
Even there I did see myself, like you know, I'm an animator in the sense, like you know, I'm doing all the assignments, I'm animating right.

00:20:10.579 --> 00:20:12.508
But you know, obviously I was still like, but you know, obviously I was still, like you know, very inexperienced doing, doing whatever I could there.

00:20:12.508 --> 00:20:14.183
So you know, I was just kind of treating it as very much, like you know, like a job sort of thing then.

00:20:14.141 --> 00:20:27.549
But then when I finally did move out of the house and I was very much just like on my own like, and then I had to do all these assignments from rit, it was a matter of something clicked and I'm like you know, I'm really not in, I'm not in the same room that I was in when I was 10 years old anymore.

00:20:27.549 --> 00:20:30.894
I'm like I can really just like go, go all out here.

00:20:30.894 --> 00:20:35.471
It's like when I, when I look at, look at this art, I'm like I can just like go full out.

00:20:35.471 --> 00:20:37.047
It's literally is a fresh start for me.

00:20:37.047 --> 00:20:41.242
It's like I can just like dig in my mind, I can see new experiences and just overall.

00:20:41.242 --> 00:20:44.867
And then it hit me I'm tired.

00:20:44.867 --> 00:20:49.654
I'm tired of saying I'm a guy who does art, I'm an artist, I'm an animator, like that is, that is who I am.

00:20:49.654 --> 00:20:55.605
It's like this is a part of my life, whether I'm not shutting it down anymore.

00:20:55.625 --> 00:20:57.009
Ok, so, so we're on to something here.

00:20:57.009 --> 00:21:00.123
I mean, this is what I'm digging for.

00:21:00.123 --> 00:21:02.490
So you finally came to the point where you took ownership.

00:21:02.490 --> 00:21:04.126
I am an animator.

00:21:04.126 --> 00:21:11.141
What shifted as a result of that?

00:21:11.141 --> 00:21:16.913
Was there any significant shifts in, either in internal shifts or, of course, you know, internal shifts are always followed by external shifts?

00:21:16.913 --> 00:21:20.309
Tell us about internal and external shifts, please.

00:21:21.160 --> 00:21:21.340
Right.

00:21:21.340 --> 00:21:27.644
So I say so, the biggest external shift, like I mentioned, was like I find, like you know, I moved out of Dallas and like lived on my own for a while.

00:21:27.644 --> 00:21:37.720
Right, so I'd say that that time, most that was a big factor in my internal shift, because I was like, obviously I lived in like even the house I'm in right now hold on my laptop's dying.

00:21:37.720 --> 00:21:44.329
There we go.

00:21:44.329 --> 00:21:48.335
So, yeah, I moved out of Dallas for the for the first time and I was on my own.

00:21:48.335 --> 00:22:10.656
So so this, I'm obviously in my childhood house right now, and so the thing is, like I mentioned, like there was that was that whole thing about me growing up, right, the person I was, I'd say even now, to like a tiny extent, not as much as it used to be, if I'm currently in this house, where I was, where I had, where I experienced all of this, it just feels like, even though a lot has happened since then, I'm kind of just back to where I was, for lack of a better term.

00:22:10.656 --> 00:22:15.631
It's like I know I'm not the same person, like I've definitely changed, but being in that same environment, it's just.

00:22:15.631 --> 00:22:19.916
It just kind of feels like I am like subconsciously reverting back to like that.

00:22:19.916 --> 00:22:23.705
You know that said that sad teenager who just felt like he had to close himself off.

00:22:24.487 --> 00:22:42.469
So I'd say, moving away really and just really figuring out who I was on my own really did force me to like re-evaluate who I was like now because, like all the thing, all the things I associated with past memories, they're gone, they're very much just like not currently with me and I was in a new place, like new people and new friends.

00:22:42.469 --> 00:22:45.563
New friends at that, new classmates who actually were on my same wavelength.

00:22:45.563 --> 00:22:46.585
We're learning the same things.

00:22:46.585 --> 00:22:47.165
We're not learning.

00:22:47.165 --> 00:22:49.150
We're not learning calculus, we're learning about storyboarding.

00:22:49.150 --> 00:23:06.027
So that that too is like that especially it's like being with peers like who I know, like associated with me, really did help me think like, okay, I'm in a new place and I think and I'm actually like interacting with people about the stuff I like to do, so really.

00:23:06.027 --> 00:23:06.307
So.

00:23:06.307 --> 00:23:17.530
So, again, like the new location, plus like again, a new community with people on the same wavelength, really helped me like accept the fact like I am this and not someone I'm pretending to be, like I took off the mask for like a better term.

00:23:19.260 --> 00:23:23.720
You're really getting into what we're all about here, and that is about the impact of community.

00:23:23.720 --> 00:23:27.791
So, yeah, keep going, dwight, you got something for him community.

00:23:27.811 --> 00:23:30.460
So, yeah, keep going, Dwight, you got something for him.

00:23:30.460 --> 00:23:36.661
No, I think that you're really spot on.

00:23:36.661 --> 00:23:39.326
I mean just hearing about how you had your classmates and you were all going through the same struggles.

00:23:39.366 --> 00:23:56.483
you were grafting onto that knowledge surface and I'm just envisioning how you're all growing together yeah, yeah, yeah, definitely, so, like, so, yeah, now, now I feel like it's a good time to talk about my rit experiences.

00:23:56.483 --> 00:24:07.265
So, yeah, so when I got there, it was a very small, small class, like I applied for the graduate program, obviously, and it was a very small class of literally 10 people and I was actually the only, the only boy in that class, believe it or not?

00:24:07.265 --> 00:24:09.990
Oh yeah, that's why that was.

00:24:10.009 --> 00:24:18.449
That was interesting that's surprising I would have thought animators would have been that industry would be more male than female.

00:24:18.489 --> 00:24:28.548
That surprises me you know that that actually is interesting too, because, like what, obviously, when I watched as a kid, when I would see like behind the scenes scenes, documentaries about animation, like you know everyone I would say I would see was a male right ever.

00:24:28.548 --> 00:24:36.284
Like everyone is male, like it's the males they're showing you all the things, like it's easy, you see some, you see some women, women here and there, but you know they did.

00:24:36.284 --> 00:24:38.209
It was very much like you know, the males giving the interviews.

00:24:38.209 --> 00:24:40.689
But then I actually had a class in the first semester.

00:24:40.689 --> 00:24:55.851
It was called animation, film language, and our professor she actually went over the statistics of animation and she actually told it, she showed us a little pie chart and it said that like a lot of the animators are like slowly becoming, like there are getting to be more female animators than male animators and I was actually kind of surprised.

00:24:55.891 --> 00:24:57.965
I was like, really that's not, that's not what I expected.

00:24:57.965 --> 00:24:59.861
But you know, again, then I looked in my class.

00:24:59.861 --> 00:25:01.303
I'm like, oh, I'm the only guy.

00:25:01.303 --> 00:25:02.084
You know what, I believe it.

00:25:02.084 --> 00:25:05.749
I'm like, literally, I'm like exhibit a.

00:25:05.769 --> 00:25:19.972
I'm like, oh, okay, never mind yeah, but yeah like, oh, go ahead oh yeah, but yeah, like I did, I did find that kind of funny, because I'm like the funny thing is like, uh, how do I put this?

00:25:19.972 --> 00:25:22.058
I never felt like I was the only guy.

00:25:22.058 --> 00:25:23.925
Oddly enough, it's like that honestly never.

00:25:23.925 --> 00:25:26.215
It didn't come up at all like okay, come up.

00:25:26.215 --> 00:25:35.367
It came up as a joke every now and then, but like never seriously, because, like we were all there vibing about animation, we weren't there like to discuss, like oh, why are you the only dude doing this?

00:25:35.367 --> 00:25:39.205
No, we all had the same goals and the same ideas and we just worked towards them together.

00:25:39.205 --> 00:25:41.146
So that's what I really appreciated about that.

00:25:42.079 --> 00:25:43.383
Yeah, that's beautiful Like.

00:25:43.383 --> 00:25:48.874
It's kind of like we always talk about how the differences really don't matter.

00:25:48.874 --> 00:25:57.654
You know, you're all there to to vibe on the one thing that's drawn you there and everything else is just superficial.

00:25:58.440 --> 00:25:58.800
Exactly.

00:25:59.222 --> 00:26:00.969
Absolutely Well said, Dwight.

00:26:00.969 --> 00:26:12.923
So during that time, Do you think that All of the other people were animators as well?

00:26:12.923 --> 00:26:21.795
Do you think it would have been a different situation if you'd have been in a creative community that had been other creatives but different forms of creativity?

00:26:30.223 --> 00:26:31.724
Not necessarily animators, yeah, I'd say so.

00:26:31.724 --> 00:26:35.608
So like branching off that a little bit, so we had the class of 10 animators.

00:26:35.608 --> 00:26:45.376
Right Within our class there were also, like maybe like four or five, like you know, live-action film producer students, you know not animation but live-action, but you know, still under you know, the film umbrella.

00:26:45.376 --> 00:26:52.872
So but then, branching off of that, we did have to take some elective classes where we had to take other art mediums too.

00:26:52.872 --> 00:27:01.144
So I actually decided to take a metalwork class Because I just thought it sounded interesting and that's where we all kind of branched off.

00:27:01.144 --> 00:27:05.710
Some people took glasswork, some people took metalwork, some people took clay, some people took wax.

00:27:05.710 --> 00:27:14.451
So while I was in that metalwork class I was so obviously I was like the only animation student there, because you know it's open for the whole university to take anyone and anyone can take it.

00:27:15.260 --> 00:27:16.886
And I'm low-key, just surprised.

00:27:16.886 --> 00:27:20.019
Like you know, we have students here like from all departments.

00:27:20.019 --> 00:27:29.990
We have, like, engineering students, we have business students and like, and again, it struck me like when the when the professor came out to tell us everyone was like laser, focused on him, like I got the sense that nobody was here.

00:27:29.990 --> 00:27:31.632
Just, you know, to take this as a blow off class.

00:27:31.632 --> 00:27:42.784
Everyone took this because they were interested in the craft, and you know, I was interested in the craft too and I was just like OK, so not all these people are artists, but like they're very much engaged in this.

00:27:42.784 --> 00:27:50.015
So, knowing that, I'm like that anyone of any discipline can put so much creativity and passion into things that they don't necessarily do on a regular basis.

00:27:50.015 --> 00:27:56.413
So, yeah, if you combine a bunch of different creatives, it can definitely provide a lot more insight as well.

00:27:57.740 --> 00:28:02.519
Well, and you're demonstrating what I say all the time, and that is we're not limited to one community.

00:28:02.519 --> 00:28:12.406
We talk about community like it's this just thing right out here, and we have many communities that we are part of all at the same time.

00:28:12.406 --> 00:28:20.748
Sometimes it may just be you and one other person, but anytime there's two or more, it's a community, if we're going to be really honest.

00:28:21.528 --> 00:28:27.079
Exactly yes, uh, yeah, no for sure.

00:28:27.079 --> 00:28:27.361
Um.

00:28:27.361 --> 00:28:29.506
So, like we've been talking about this whole thing.

00:28:29.506 --> 00:28:32.601
Like you know, at one point you just kind of accept, like this is who, this is who I am.

00:28:32.601 --> 00:28:36.578
Right, like you know, I'm an animator, I'm I'm an insert x artist here.

00:28:36.578 --> 00:28:39.967
But again, like I'm not gonna say, like that's all who I am either.

00:28:39.967 --> 00:28:41.198
Like, like, definitely not.

00:28:41.198 --> 00:28:42.560
There is obviously more to me than that.

00:28:42.942 --> 00:28:48.664
So, like I'd say, that moment, when you finally accept who you are is one thing, like that's just part of a huge web of like who you are.

00:28:49.026 --> 00:29:07.905
It's like there's a whole whole bunch of things, like you know, there's your experiences, there's the friends, friends you made growing up, new friends you keep making now, like this may be like who I, who I am, again, not not even just on a professional level, but just like on a on a spiritual level too, but like again, like it's only one element, like there's a whole bunch of building blocks that made that who you are.

00:29:07.905 --> 00:29:13.800
And again, that's also why I keep saying like, even though I do have like some, there are some things I might want to change.

00:29:13.800 --> 00:29:24.916
Like if I had the ability to change the past, I don't think I should, because, like at the end of the day, like all those events leading up to now, they kind of made me who I am and if I change one thing, it's like who knows, who knows what will be.

00:29:24.916 --> 00:29:25.977
Who knows who knows what will be.

00:29:25.977 --> 00:29:27.198
I might not be here right now.

00:29:27.659 --> 00:29:32.261
Exactly, exactly, I agree 100 percent.

00:29:32.261 --> 00:29:40.107
You know we're so quick to think we would go back and change things, but I doubt it would work out that way Exactly.

00:29:40.107 --> 00:29:45.192
You know, it's like there's a reason we experienced what we experience and it is made us who we are today.

00:29:45.192 --> 00:29:55.214
So you talked about coming back into the family home and kind of feeling a little bit of regression, some, you know, kind of like slipping back into some old habits, feeling like a teenager again.

00:29:55.214 --> 00:30:19.192
What, what would, if you were going to take a step towards, um, re-embodying that I am an animator and feeling like you felt when you were in Rochester, but doing it while still being here in the Dallas area and living in the family home, what could you do?

00:30:19.192 --> 00:30:32.476
What might you do that would help you bridge that gap and get back into that energy of you know where you were that you loved so much when you were at that training and at school?

00:30:33.721 --> 00:30:39.059
well, I'd say, definitely, the first step is to, you know, like, for, like you know, this place, place got I gotta look the part first.

00:30:39.059 --> 00:30:43.078
So, like, so, right now I'm actually in my old brother, in my, in my brother's old room.

00:30:43.078 --> 00:30:46.457
It's like, and as you can see right now, like I kind of got a little uh in the screen a bit.

00:30:46.457 --> 00:30:52.807
I got a little uh tablet here, I got a light, I got a light box on the back, I got like god knows how many plushies up there.

00:30:52.807 --> 00:30:58.022
Well, yeah, I basically transformed this room into, like my, into my studio, for lack of a better term.

00:30:58.022 --> 00:30:59.686
So I'd say that is, that is step one.

00:30:59.686 --> 00:31:03.736
You know, like, first of all, like you gotta have, if you want to do something, you gotta have the space for it.

00:31:03.736 --> 00:31:13.461
So so I basically transformed this into my space and, at the, at same time, you know, I got to keep learning new things Because, like, while I was in Rochester, I was learning things I didn't know.

00:31:13.894 --> 00:31:20.462
So, even though, like, I have finished that and, like you know, I'm technically, you know, a career animator now, that doesn't mean I need to stop learning new things.

00:31:20.462 --> 00:31:27.059
I keep trying to force myself to, you know, like, branch out like add things I might not be as good at right now.

00:31:27.059 --> 00:31:36.007
There's things currently, right now, that I'm still trying to improve on that I admit I'm not exactly the strongest at, but I do want to get better because I feel like it will benefit me long term.

00:31:36.007 --> 00:31:48.394
So I'd say it's mainly just get a little bit of space and just keep learning new things and that'll just keep you moving forward and stop you from moving backwards.

00:31:49.704 --> 00:31:50.755
And what about community?

00:31:51.275 --> 00:32:03.770
There we go back to community too, like, again, even when I got back to dallas, I started like I started branching out to more creative events too, like, for example, I met both of you at the at the tower club event and that has also given me sort of a out of a reinvigorated search.

00:32:03.790 --> 00:32:13.321
Like, even after the tower club event, I attended a mixer for the dallas international film festival, where it was just all film people talking, which was a wholly different experience altogether.

00:32:13.321 --> 00:32:31.980
And then, of course, it came to your, your guys's mixer and also just the fact that, knowing, like you know, like I know, dallas isn't exactly known as like a creative hub, but like the fact that there are a ton of creatives in dallas who are like show, showing off what they can do and trying and trying to make things, things, things, things better themselves, like it really is a well, a little bit of a shock to the system, for lack of a better term.

00:32:31.980 --> 00:32:34.339
It's like, oh wow, you know I'm really not alone in this.

00:32:34.339 --> 00:32:38.039
Like I'm not that low, I'm not that like lonely little kid I was like ages ago.

00:32:38.039 --> 00:32:51.038
Now I know people who are have the same goals as me and you?

00:32:51.057 --> 00:32:51.840
Are you familiar with Creative Mornings?

00:32:51.840 --> 00:32:53.066
I heard about it maybe five times while I was at your event.

00:32:53.066 --> 00:32:53.849
Yep, definitely want to check it out.

00:32:53.849 --> 00:32:55.015
We don't ever miss a meeting.

00:32:56.796 --> 00:32:57.938
It's pretty amazing, yeah, 100%.

00:32:59.180 --> 00:33:00.201
And it's global.

00:33:00.201 --> 00:33:01.623
It's all over the globe.

00:33:01.623 --> 00:33:02.464
It's big.

00:33:03.086 --> 00:33:05.189
Yeah, 270 cities or so?

00:33:05.769 --> 00:33:09.936
Yeah, yeah, so 70 countries.

00:33:09.936 --> 00:33:10.440
Is it 70?

00:33:10.440 --> 00:33:11.265
Is that right, dwight?

00:33:11.265 --> 00:33:12.029
70 countries?

00:33:13.037 --> 00:33:13.377
Oh, 70.

00:33:13.377 --> 00:33:14.682
Wow, that's more than I expected.

00:33:14.934 --> 00:33:17.240
There's a chapter in Fort Worth.

00:33:17.240 --> 00:33:27.448
There's chapters in most of the major cities in the United States, so if you're a traveling person, you can even bob around and go to different creative mornings.

00:33:27.448 --> 00:33:29.317
But yeah, they have.

00:33:29.317 --> 00:33:33.705
How many thousands Dwight of members now?

00:33:33.705 --> 00:33:38.244
Oh, my goodness Well 67,000 or something like that.

00:33:38.535 --> 00:33:40.862
Yeah, it's a ridiculous number, it's huge.

00:33:41.805 --> 00:33:42.246
It's huge.

00:33:42.246 --> 00:33:44.823
We highly recommend it.

00:33:44.823 --> 00:33:50.921
But let's talk a little bit about challenges.

00:33:50.921 --> 00:34:07.982
What you know in in your experience to this point, your creative journey, what perhaps has been the the biggest challenge that you've had to overcome, the thing that may have kicked your butt.

00:34:07.982 --> 00:34:10.047
Maybe you're to the other side of it and maybe you're not.

00:34:10.047 --> 00:34:11.929
Maybe you're still getting your butt kicked.

00:34:14.556 --> 00:34:20.143
I'd say it's just accepting the fact like you know, like you may be getting better, but someone's still better at better at you than what you're doing.

00:34:20.143 --> 00:34:22.664
Like I especially learned this like really hard while I was in Rochester.

00:34:22.664 --> 00:34:25.403
Like, yeah, like I may have been like a really like back then.

00:34:25.403 --> 00:34:31.577
I may have been a solid like artist animator for the time being.

00:34:31.577 --> 00:34:38.463
Then, you know, I go to a place where there's like actual like industry, like former industry professionals who are teaching and I'm just like I really don't know a damn thing, do I?

00:34:38.463 --> 00:34:42.045
But then, even after graduating, it's like then I'm leaving.

00:34:42.135 --> 00:34:45.706
I'm like I learned then, like I keep looking up stuff and I keep drawing stuff.

00:34:46.697 --> 00:34:48.364
I'm like I still don't know a damn thing, do I.

00:34:53.315 --> 00:34:57.315
It's like I know more than I did, but it's like there's like there's endless knowledge out there and endless practice and again it's like some, some skills I've developed like a pretty big mastery over.

00:34:57.315 --> 00:35:02.215
But even then it's like there's still more, more that I can do with that, not even just stuff that like I'm trying to improve on.

00:35:02.215 --> 00:35:04.900
That I wasn't good at, even stuff that I consider myself really good at.

00:35:04.900 --> 00:35:16.199
It's just a matter of like I know there will always be someone better than me, and just knowing that it's like you know what that does, like that's very much like a kick in the pants and he's like don't get, don't get too comfortable, you can be proud of what you do.

00:35:16.199 --> 00:35:25.105
But again, strive, just, you know, do a do a little bit more and then keep striving to do a little bit more after.

00:35:25.105 --> 00:35:27.108
If you just keep shooting high, then you'll end up.

00:35:27.108 --> 00:35:43.788
You'll end up in a pretty good spot, both artistically speaking and that's the word I'm looking for like professionally speaking, and it sounds it sounds like something that Maddox has shared on many occasions.

00:35:45.896 --> 00:35:52.302
You don't necessarily have to be the best, you just have to be unique.

00:35:52.302 --> 00:35:53.507
You've got to be different.

00:35:55.115 --> 00:35:56.963
Yeah, there's only one spot for the best.

00:35:56.963 --> 00:36:04.909
I learned a long time ago that trying to be the best was the worst thing I could do to set myself up for failure.

00:36:04.909 --> 00:36:39.706
I've spent 40 years in the beauty industry and I focused on how I could be different from everybody else, and you know, when you talked about wanting to be better, I always wanted to be better, didn't you don't have to be the best to be better, and I discovered throughout that 40-year career that I suffered from burnout multiple times, and the way I came back from burnout every time was to plug back into the industry and start doing cutting edge education.

00:36:39.706 --> 00:37:03.188
I'd go back in and I would recreate myself by going back and learning the latest skills that were skills that I didn't currently have, and it would literally inject, infuse energy and fresh blood back into me, my business, my relationship with my clients, d all of the above, yeah.

00:37:03.996 --> 00:37:06.838
I love the way that you have such an awareness, nakund.

00:37:06.838 --> 00:37:10.001
You have such an awareness you um are.

00:37:10.001 --> 00:37:18.769
You were just aware that you you never got too high on your own supply, like you knew that there was somewhere to go.

00:37:18.769 --> 00:37:29.938
And I think uh, a lot of people can fall into the trap of thinking that everything's great and just being uh blown away whenever they they see someone else.

00:37:29.938 --> 00:37:32.224
That's at a higher level of mastery.

00:37:32.865 --> 00:37:33.568
Yeah, I know I have.

00:37:34.755 --> 00:37:54.356
Yeah, I want to acknowledge your humility, because that's something that's overlooked a lot of times, and I think that we hit a certain level sometimes and we lose sight of our humility, and that usually ends up sabotaging us some way or another.

00:37:54.356 --> 00:37:55.179
I don't.

00:37:55.179 --> 00:38:03.806
You know, no matter how much I've succeeded, I've always said you know, I make it a point to have a piece of humble pie every day.

00:38:06.775 --> 00:38:08.302
Yeah, exactly no, I agree 100%.

00:38:08.302 --> 00:38:09.847
You should like again, like never, like, never forget.

00:38:09.847 --> 00:38:13.659
Like you had to start, you had to start somewhere to like, keep that in mind.

00:38:13.659 --> 00:38:22.458
Like very much, like, like, like, be humble, be, be, like, be aware, be aware and be might be mindful of everyone else, but you know, at the same time, don't let that consume you either.

00:38:22.458 --> 00:38:29.623
Like it is possible to be like, like to like too humble to the point where it's like you start ragging on yourself a little bit too much and that that can, like, inversely affect you too.

00:38:29.623 --> 00:38:33.719
So, like, be, be humble and like, but at the same time, be proud, be proud of what you do.

00:38:33.719 --> 00:38:35.956
Like, don't be, don't be afraid to show, to show your stuff off.

00:38:35.956 --> 00:38:38.585
Don't think like, oh no, I'm not good enough and I can't show it.

00:38:38.646 --> 00:38:53.739
No, just just show it off Like be proud I.

00:38:53.739 --> 00:38:56.351
I think, um, if, if we just keep it to the level of the streets, don't be an asshole, don't be a dick yeah.

00:38:56.411 --> 00:38:56.873
Don't be an asshole.

00:38:56.873 --> 00:38:57.996
Perfect, yes, yes.

00:38:57.996 --> 00:39:09.625
So what would you say is, to date, um in all that you've shared your, your journey, what has been your most profound learned lesson?

00:39:09.625 --> 00:39:17.936
What's the?

00:39:18.576 --> 00:39:24.539
lesson that you've learned that you can share with us and the listeners.

00:39:24.539 --> 00:39:28.702
I'd say it's just well, like first off, you know, just don't stop, don't get discouraged.

00:39:28.702 --> 00:39:30.264
That's like the biggest one right there.

00:39:30.264 --> 00:39:36.688
I think everything does tie back to the whole situation of you try something, you fail, you fail over and over again.

00:39:36.688 --> 00:39:38.528
You just end up saying I'm not good enough for this.

00:39:38.528 --> 00:39:41.431
No, you're going to fail more than you're going to succeed.

00:39:41.431 --> 00:39:42.931
Let's just get that right off the table.

00:39:42.931 --> 00:39:46.719
You are going to fail more than you will succeed.

00:39:46.739 --> 00:39:57.940
But that one success you get from like all those failures that will, it will be well worth it when you finally get that, get that thing working or get that that piece, perfect it, you don't know how good you're going to feel.

00:39:57.940 --> 00:39:59.063
All those hundred failures.

00:39:59.063 --> 00:40:00.760
They're going to seem like they're.

00:40:00.760 --> 00:40:02.047
They're going to seem like nothing to you.

00:40:02.047 --> 00:40:05.759
They're just going to seem like little stepping stones that you had to get it get across, just to do it.

00:40:05.759 --> 00:40:10.706
It's just please, please, do not stop, do not get discouraged, and don't let anyone discourage you either.

00:40:10.706 --> 00:40:15.079
Like, you know what you want to do, you know what you have to do and just do, just do it.

00:40:17.005 --> 00:40:22.119
Wow, I just have not heard that said as beautifully and concise as you just said it.

00:40:22.119 --> 00:40:22.983
That was amazing.

00:40:23.505 --> 00:40:26.561
Well, have you seen a certain Shia LaBeouf video where he said he literally just ends with just do.

00:40:26.561 --> 00:40:29.181
He just says just do it, where he literally just ends?

00:40:29.201 --> 00:40:29.360
with.

00:40:29.360 --> 00:40:35.887
He just says just do it, just keep going.

00:40:35.887 --> 00:40:41.436
Absolutely Well, makun.

00:40:41.436 --> 00:40:46.815
Do you have anything else that you would like to share with the listeners before we move to rapid fire questions?

00:40:55.614 --> 00:40:56.157
is this the part where I?

00:40:56.237 --> 00:40:57.199
like drop my handles, or does that come later?

00:40:57.199 --> 00:40:58.704
You know we'll put all that in the show notes.

00:40:58.704 --> 00:41:00.251
You don't have to say that out loud.

00:41:00.291 --> 00:41:04.335
We'll put it all in the show notes perfect, because I'm like I don't know how to spell my Instagram handle on my culture.

00:41:04.335 --> 00:41:08.179
Oh yeah, perfect.

00:41:08.179 --> 00:41:14.445
But you know, just again, like creatives and everyone's alike, again, just keep out what you're doing.

00:41:14.445 --> 00:41:16.447
Like you're doing this for a reason.

00:41:16.447 --> 00:41:17.248
Don't forget that.

00:41:17.248 --> 00:41:33.958
Like you know, like don't forget your reasoning, and that will carry you the whole way calling and you accepted it.

00:41:33.978 --> 00:41:35.701
You know, I heard somebody say you know something about getting a calling and I went.

00:41:35.701 --> 00:41:39.768
You know, the thing that nobody tells you is that we all get the call.

00:41:39.768 --> 00:41:45.019
Whether you're talking religion or whatever else you're talking about, we all get the call.

00:41:45.019 --> 00:41:47.463
Some of us just choose not to answer it.

00:41:47.579 --> 00:41:49.193
Amen, some of us just choose not to answer it.

00:41:53.579 --> 00:41:54.981
Amen, classic hero's journey right there.

00:41:55.884 --> 00:41:57.545
Yep, yep, all right.

00:41:57.545 --> 00:41:59.809
Rapid question number one.

00:42:03.875 --> 00:42:07.282
What's a weird habit that you have while creating?

00:42:07.282 --> 00:42:15.858
A weird habit that I have while creating is that I will sometimes I will literally just like sink so deep and like to a character that I'm thinking of that I literally just like forget that I am like my door.

00:42:15.858 --> 00:42:24.255
I'll forget that my door is open and I'll be like talking in a funny voice or I'll just be like doing a weird, doing a weird like pose with my arms, and sometimes my parents will walk by.

00:42:24.255 --> 00:42:27.402
They're just like the fuck's wrong with this kid, love it.

00:42:27.402 --> 00:42:33.784
I have my mirror up here to see all my expressions.

00:42:33.784 --> 00:42:40.543
Sometimes my face is so contorted that they'll walk by and they'll just not say anything at all.

00:42:41.615 --> 00:42:44.581
It's like that joke about where the punchline is.

00:42:44.581 --> 00:42:46.762
It's fun as long as nobody sees you doing it.

00:42:47.335 --> 00:42:51.605
Oh yeah, sure, but even if you see me, I'm not going to stop, I'll just be like it's exactly what it looks like.

00:42:54.175 --> 00:42:59.987
Okay, next question what's one word to describe your creative style?

00:43:01.835 --> 00:43:05.023
My creative style is very exaggerated and cartoony.

00:43:06.407 --> 00:43:09.653
Beautiful, beautiful.

00:43:09.653 --> 00:43:14.954
What's one lesson you've learned from your creative community?

00:43:17.900 --> 00:43:20.666
uh, don't, don't bite out, don't bite off more than more than you can chew.

00:43:20.666 --> 00:43:22.237
Start small and build upon that.

00:43:22.237 --> 00:43:27.760
Don't like take a huge bite and then and then choke on it later oh my god, that's huge.

00:43:28.262 --> 00:43:38.896
I wish somebody had said that to me six or eight months ago yeah, because I haven't been biting off more than I can chew yes, I frequently bite off more than I can chew.

00:43:38.896 --> 00:43:42.922
Oh well, awesome answers, thank you.

00:43:42.922 --> 00:43:55.380
This has been an amazing conversation and I feel I you know the beauty of this is we just get to know people so much better it's the best part of it yeah, definitely.

00:43:55.400 --> 00:44:09.697
Like I'm so glad I came, so like so glad I met you guys at the tower club, so glad I came to you guys event and you know, like pledges all mine, like doing this podcast, like I feel like I get to know you guys a lot better too absolutely thank you for this.

00:44:09.777 --> 00:44:14.143
We really appreciate your time and your energy thanks for having me.