April 7, 2025
#017: Mental Health & Creativity: One Artist's Journey With Rich Wright
Rich Wright's powerful journey from darkness to hope will resonate with anyone who has struggled with mental health while pursuing artistic passions. After surviving a suicide attempt and twelve weeks of intensive treatment, Rich realized traditional psychiatry couldn't provide the answers he needed, sparking his quest for alternative healing that transformed his life.
Rich shares his career transitions—from fashion design for Bacardi International to jewelry making to his role as an "artist lifestyle coach"—emphasizing how creativity and spirituality became pillars of his recovery. He believes creativity isn't just an activity but a spiritual practice that channels source energy and makes the world more beautiful.
The conversation explores flow states, where creation happens effortlessly by quieting the analytical mind and letting heart-centered awareness guide the process. Rich's revolutionary perspective—"the heart is the true brain"—highlights the interplay between heart and mind.
Rich also shares a vulnerable story about a psychic medium channeling his late grandfather—a Southern Baptist minister—validating his spiritual journey beyond traditional frameworks. His eight years with an intuitive healer have brought more healing than decades of conventional therapy.
For creatives battling mental health challenges, Rich’s message is clear: "You are not alone." He understands the physical and mental drain of depression and how it can block creative flow. His parting wisdom—"be kind to your mind"—reminds us that even our toughest mental patterns began as protective mechanisms worthy of compassion.
Ready to transform your relationship with creativity and mental health? Connect with Rich's work to discover how heart-centered awareness can unlock your artistic potential and lead to profound healing.
Rich's Profile
The Artist Recovery
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For the Love of Creatives Community
00:00 - Community's Role in Healing and Growth
01:59 - Introduction to Rich Wright's Journey
03:47 - Mental Health Struggles and Career Transitions
10:12 - Science vs. Spirituality in Healing
15:22 - The Flow State in Creative Work
22:45 - Feminine and Masculine Energy in Creation
26:54 - The Power of Community vs. Family
51:38 - Final Advice: Be Kind to Your Mind
WEBVTT
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So it's continuing to pull and surround and provide source and protection and nourishment, all of those types of things.
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So when something slips out of that community, the community becomes stronger and amplifies to be able to take care of what was just lost.
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And I think that in today's society, if we can get to that and get back to that type of a thought process about community and being strong together as community, then that in and of itself can help build something even more beautiful today.
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Welcome to another edition of For the Love of Creatives podcast.
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I am your host, Dwight, and I'm joined by our host, Maddox, and today the Connection and Community guys are joined by our featured guest, Rich Wright.
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Hey Rich, Thanks for having me.
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I appreciate it All.
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Right Appreciate your interest.
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Yeah well, we're so glad that you could join us.
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I learned a little bit about all of the things that you've done done and it seems like you've been on quite a journey.
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Even uh from childhood, you know, you've been engaged in creative activities from uh from drawing design, uh working with uh world known music acts and uh doing all kinds of things.
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Um, could you tell our listeners just a little bit about who you are and what you're about?
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Yeah, I'm a artist and a designer and I've just recently shifted gears into what I've coined becoming an artist lifestyle coach and focusing on mental health within the creative community.
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Because myself I've dealt with mental health struggles since I was a kid and that is about halfway through my life.
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I attempted suicide, ended up in the hospital for six weeks, did six weeks outpatient after that and then, you know, went back into trying to find a job, trying to be creative, all of those different things and over the course of my entire career as a creative course of my entire career as a creative, even just starting out when I was a kid being creative, I've had to kind of navigate that and at this point in time in life I feel like I need to shift from focusing on trying to be the artist or trying to be the designer and succeed at that and shift into bringing my perspective and how I've dealt with mental health into the creative community.
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And let them know you are not alone.
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I understand that feeling.
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I understand what the brain does during those times.
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I understand how physically draining that is, how at times that blocks the creative flow.
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I understand what it's like to stand on the edge of life and death and step off.
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So I want all creatives, artists, all creatives to know you are not alone.
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There is somebody that completely understands the full spectrum of what it's like to be a creative and deal with mental health struggles.
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I think there's a big need for that.
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Rich, I think you're onto something, and I personally have not seen anybody else out there.
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I haven't searched it, but I haven't seen a lot of that present.
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Yeah, it's not.
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Well, we don't have that in society in general.
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We don't we shy away from that issue, correct, Correct, general.
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We don't we shy away from that issue, correct, correct.
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And there's many studies that are going on, even more prevalent lately, in terms of a shift between whether or not the brain is the true brain or whether the heart is the true brain, and from what I've experienced, my belief is that potentially, the heart is the true brain.
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The regular brain is just the one that helps us navigate, and if we could potentially shift into working with both in unison the heart and the mind then things might smooth out a little more.
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And that's part of what I want to bring into the discussion as well, because a lot of the years of me going to psychiatrists and psychologists working with even University of Michigan Depression Center and being told by them that we cannot help you, and so just imagine what that might feel like if you're literally going to one of the top universities in the country who's studying depression on a longitudinal basis with many patients and they say we can't help you.
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That's the most confusing thing that you might could ever experience.
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And so, with that, one of the things that's always been instinctive for me is to continuously search, search for alternatives, search for something that could help me heal, and through that I've been able to transition into alternative healing modalities.
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And you know, later on in the conversation we can circle back to that and I can expound on that a bit more.
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But that, in a nutshell, is kind of who I am.
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Like you mentioned, dwight, I've had quite an extensive career, not just in one field or industry.
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I've kind of broadened it and jumped into fashion, I've jumped into jewelry design, tried to be just a graphic designer, tried to be a fine artist and I've done all those things.
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They just haven't been sustainable up to this point with being in each one, although during the time periods of being in those fields I was able to do quite a few things that might look fantastic on a resume, but unless they're sustainable, it's just another resume.
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Sure, I'm curious if, in your searching, you came across the work of the HeartMath Institute.
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Yes, yes, absolutely.
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I've looked at that quite a few times.
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One of the things for me with that and again, as I'm speaking these things, I want everybody to be clear and understand that I'm giving this from my perspective, so it may work for you, it may not work for you, and I want that to be clear as well, but from my experience, I have looked at the heart math.
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I have a heart math device.
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The block that I have in my mind is part of the breath work that goes into play with that, and so that's something that I have to continue to work on, and eventually I believe I will get there to where I'm able to stay focused with the breath long enough to integrate it.
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But as of yet.
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I'm still learning, aren't we all?
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And what would we do if we weren't?
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Oh my God.
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You know, yeah, we were exposed to HeartMath about a year ago and I bought the device, and life has been so full this year that it's in a drawer, still in the box.
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I never got it out and played with it or even found out exactly what it's about someday.
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But you said something a minute ago that I kind of want to backtrack to for just a second.
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You were talking about science telling you they just didn't have an answer for you.
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I kind of have always felt like when science comes to the end of its rope and doesn't have anything else to offer, that, for me, has been where the slack has been taken up through spirituality.
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Yes, yeah.
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I mean, science is about the things that we can see and we can.
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We can quantify it and we can qualify it and all those other things that we can measure it.
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And spirit is the unseen, the things that we can't see and can't prove.
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Yet for many of us we know truly important.
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And I say that because for most of my life I would say from second grade, so six, seven years on, so six, seven years on has been rooted in fundamental Baptist religion.
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Up until seven, my parents weren't really into it that much, but I had a grandfather on my mom's side and all of my, all of my family's, from east tennessee, um, so if there's a note or hint of any accent there, it's just because I've been around that for many years, um, but my mother's father was a southern baptist minister.
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So I've had to be ingrained in that for most of my life.
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And then into some of the college experience that I had, and the thing that I felt through that was that I was never getting the full truth out of it.
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It always felt like, okay, you're being told this, but this is only a part of it.
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That was my sense, my feeling, my intuition, that was my internal, uh, guide, saying wait, there's, it's not expanded enough, it's not, um, expressed enough, it's, they're just giving you part, giving you a part.
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So, with that structure, if you can imagine having being told.
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You know, you have to respect your elders, you have to listen to your elders, because they're the ones who are the guides that are going to direct you in life.
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But yet my own intuition, my own internal guide, was telling me, telling me this is not the way, this is not it, this is not it um.
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And so, with that um, later on in life I had an experience where a friend of mine who's a psychic um happened to start channeling um a message to me and, ironically, that message was coming from my grandfather who had passed, who was the Southern Baptist minister.
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Now, if you could catch the irony of that right, which I think is the point of it all, was the fact that he was coming through and he was letting me know because she had no idea of any of this information whatsoever.
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And I didn't know it because it was based on an experience him and I had when I was a kid, working out baling hay, and then we were hot and sweaty after the fact and went to town and, you know, just hung out, cooled off, and so the message that he was bringing through he was describing this experience that we had together and it was in such detail, all the way down to the label of what we got to quench that thirst within us.
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And what's unique about that was that was only a regional product.
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At that point in time, it wasn't anything that we had here in Michigan.
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So he expressed that.
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And then he also came through and said to me you already know everything you need to know and you need to just trust yourself, because everything that you've thought and believed up to this point is real, and it's even more so.
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Allow yourself the grace to step into that.
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And then, within that same reading, another friend that I know and knew and I say knew because she had passed on and she was actually murdered in a horrific way she came through and she said you are a good man and thank you for being that in my presence.
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So, from that point on, that's where I started my journey of looking at spirituality, alternative healing methods and different things of that aspect, which allowed me to start to open up, allowed my intuition to become more in tune, more intact, allowed my empathy to start to expand even more so.
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But those are the things where I believe what you're trying to get across, maddox, is the fact that science is not just the only thing.
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If the spirituality is not brought into the picture, then you don't have a full spectrum understanding of any of it.
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I agree Fully, yeah.
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And I think our answers are going to be found in the merging of science and spirituality.
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I don't think it's an either, or I think it's an, and Absolutely.
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You know it's like the science is like the brain.
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The science is like the brain, you know, it's very concrete, and spirituality is more like the heart.
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It's ethereal and fluid.
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I believe in all that stuff.
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You know I don't talk about it very much, but I say the term loosely because people get a little weird when you start talking about channeling.
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But every ounce of my creativity is channeled, every ounce of it.
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It just comes through and you know, for me, I know exactly where it's coming from, right?
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Yes, you know, I know it is coming from source.
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It's coming from Right.
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Yes, you know, I know it is coming from source.
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It's coming from higher power, god, whatever word you got for it.
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Yeah, I'm very much a deeply spiritual person, of a big believer, and I don't consider myself religious at all.
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I was opposite story in that my parents were churchgoers when I was a small child and there was something that came about in our lives.
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My dad opened a business when I was 11 years old.
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We moved to a new city and he opened a business and the business was something that he had to work at seven days a week, so couldn't go to church, and so we stopped going to church and I look back on that with immense gratitude, immense gratitude.
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It never Now later in life, I attended a church for a period of time, for about 10 years, but it was very spirit-based, very spirit-based, but for the most part I have that journey has been more of a solo journey.
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I get my community needs met in different ways other than church.
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A little bit of that, because it was a part of my story.
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But within the Bible it says where two or more are gathered, I'm there with you.
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Yes, so you don't have to be inside a building to be in church.
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You don't have to be under an umbrella of Baptist, methodist, presbyterian, pentecostal, any of the above.
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You don't have to be under those umbrellas to be spiritual or to be in church, as long as you are speaking about it in a sense.
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That's what it is.
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What we're doing right here, in a sense, is church it is.
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We brought up the topic of spirituality and we are communing, correct?
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exactly, and there are two, two or more of us, you're exactly, you're right, amen yeah, yeah, um, I I've always believed that God is not in a building spirit.
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God divine, whatever label, it's in me, it's in my heart.
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Yeah, yeah, absolutely.
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I don't have to go anywhere to connect, it's just right here.
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Yeah, tell me how you feel about what I'm about to say, rich.
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I fully believe that our spiritual nature, whether we're aware of it or not, is a big part of creation, oh, 100% plus agreed.
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I mean, I think everything is spiritual, but there are people that are not consciously part of that and then there are people that are consciously part of that.
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I personally believe that that has.
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It's just like community.
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Community enhances whatever it is that you're doing.
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Yes, If you're working on mental health, if you're working on staying sober or drug addiction, or you're working on overcoming abuse, it doesn't matter what it is.
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Community speeds that process up, gives us things that we wouldn't have had if we were going solo.
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The same is true for creativity.
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Absolutely 100% plus, agreed on that.
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I believe that, again, that's part of what I'm trying to bring to the forefront as well within communities the fact that if creatives and artists can get to a place of healing, if they're struggling, the amount of light that will expound out of their work will change the world.
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Because when we're creating and we slip into that flow state, that state of being where all perception of space and time dissipates and creatives will understand this, what I'm saying, because I'm sure that they've probably experienced it at some point in time you slip into a state where you're just fully in creation and that, essentially, is tied just to source energy, source energy of creation, tied to the Creator Himself.
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So if it's understood, or can be understood, that every time you put a pencil to a paper, you strike a string on a guitar, hit a key on a piano, dab your brush into a color of paint, that in and of itself is a spiritual practice, because you're making the world more beautiful by what you are creating.
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I would like to add to the list.
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Come up with a great idea, exactly, to add to the list.
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Come up with a great idea.
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Exactly, you know it, it, um, which that in of itself can also make the world more beautiful, not necessarily visually, right, right, but there's, there's nothing that's really exempt from what you just said, correct?
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correct and and that, in and of itself, right there, that key phrase and sentence was what allowed me the confidence, without even knowing any of the technical aspects of it, allowed me to just jump right into fashion when I quit college because I couldn't afford to continue and I was failing every other class except for my art classes.
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But I jumped right into fashion and started designing, only for the and just for the simple fact that I knew I could draw what I wanted to see as a finished product.
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And that's what I did.
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I went out and I found a seamstress who I could work with, who could look at my visual drawings and then take those and turn them into 3D product.
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The other thing that she did for me was she taught me how to measure, how to take measurements on a human form and then translate those back into the garment that I was designing.
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So I didn't need the school to tell me that, I just had somebody who was experienced and already doing the work.
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That allowed me to expand within that field.
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And then I went on to do design work for Bacardi International.
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I was designing promotional outfits for all of their events, ended up being asked to design all of the promotional outfits for the 2001 Kentucky Derby.
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So that was that element that comes into play.
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I was asked by Absolute Vodka to be a part of their Absolute Vodka Co-Cheer Fashion Shows as a local artist when they came to Metro Detroit.
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When they came to Metro Detroit, not knowing or having any formal training in fashion design, that's what I was doing at that point in time.
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And then fast forward to 2010,.
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I dove headfirst into the jewelry industry, had no clue about jewelry other than I knew I could draw it, about jewelry other than I knew I could draw it.
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And if I could draw it, I've already seen other stuff that's on the market and it had to start from a drawing and an idea and a concept to get to that point.
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So if I can draw it in the way I want to see it in 3D, then I can take that paper, that piece of paper, I can go to a wax carver, I can go to a CAD designer or I can just go straight to the manufacturing company and say, look, this is my idea, this is where I'm going to create.
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And then they started working with me and helping me understand.
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Okay, this is the process of how we take this from your drawing to the finished product.
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Now, again, it was a learning curve and a lot of people that go to school for jewelry design or go to gemology school to understand stones and different things like that how they're cut, clarity and value of those yeah, I jumped the line, so to speak.
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But I don't look at it as jumping the line.
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I just look at it as understanding myself and what I knew and could comprehend and visually create versus what I wanted to try and learn.
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That was going to take up a bunch of time and take longer for me to get to where I wanted to be.
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So one of the key elements of that was having to learn.
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Everything is measured in millimeters in the jewelry industry, so it's not thinking of it as inches or centimeters or anything.
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It's all millimeters.
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So I had to start translating everything that I was drawing into millimeter perspectives and then from that it just took off and I was able to develop my own designer line of jewelry market that across the Midwest Within the first year by 2011, 2012, first quarter, we were in nine different stores throughout the Midwest with the product and then from then on it was just a matter of consistently creating and putting stuff into the marketplace.
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And then you know, you fast forward up to 2019, the pandemic starting to hit 2020 hits full on and the market's going up on the price of gold and silver, and it was.
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I had to look at it very strongly and be like this is not going to be sustainable over the next couple of years.
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So I went ahead and I just closed that down Now.
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That's not to say, at some certain point in time, that I can revive that and bring that back into the storyline, maybe what I'm doing with the artist, lifestyle coaching and have that as something that helps individuals individuals because when I started getting towards the end of the trajectory of it in terms of just a timeline, I was starting to look at it more from a chemical point of view, which played into the spirituality as well, my growth in the spiritual spirituality of my healing.
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I started looking at metals as ways of alchemically changing the energy and the vibration of the piece so that it could potentially be more amplified and beneficial to the person that it was going to.
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So if, at some point in time, I can bring that back in and fully integrate that alchemical experience into those pieces and share those in that way, who knows what could happen.
00:28:34.637 --> 00:28:48.583
I think it's interesting that you would term it that way because, as I look at the various transitions you've made in your life, you have gone through your own personal alchemy.
00:28:48.583 --> 00:29:02.768
Yes, you've transformed many times yes, absolutely, right, absolutely yes, your ability to pivot is impressive and inspiring.
00:29:04.068 --> 00:29:04.369
Thank you.
00:29:07.056 --> 00:29:08.217
Thank you for that.
00:29:08.217 --> 00:29:13.202
You said something that I want to pull tease out a little bit more.
00:29:13.202 --> 00:29:20.790
You talked about the flow state, and I think most of us, as creatives, are certainly aware of that language, that terminology.
00:29:20.790 --> 00:29:24.480
I know I am.
00:29:24.480 --> 00:29:27.247
What is it that enables you?
00:29:27.247 --> 00:29:29.337
What is it that you do?
00:29:29.337 --> 00:29:31.061
Or space do you put yourself in?
00:29:31.061 --> 00:29:32.965
That enables you to?
00:29:32.965 --> 00:29:41.755
I mean, it would be an internal and an external thing to really put yourself in that flow energy.
00:29:43.522 --> 00:29:44.990
Really put yourself in that flow energy.
00:29:44.990 --> 00:29:52.828
So for me it may be a little bit different, and I say that just for the simple fact that I was given my gifts.
00:29:52.828 --> 00:30:03.951
My ability to create was gifted because I started so early drawing creating.
00:30:03.951 --> 00:30:09.467
I told a story the other day, related it to just Legos.
00:30:09.467 --> 00:30:22.317
Whereas when I was young we didn't have a whole lot of money, so I didn't get fantastic Christmas presents every year, I just got whatever my parents could afford.
00:30:22.317 --> 00:30:25.839
Fantastic Christmas presents every year, I just got whatever my parents could afford and I had a few Legos.
00:30:25.839 --> 00:30:47.161
But I wasn't getting full on box sets of what kids can get today, but the little bit of Legos that I got I would continuously build something out, and then the next day I would go back to it and tear it all apart and then build something else.
00:30:47.161 --> 00:30:51.048
And so for me, that creativity is always there.
00:30:51.048 --> 00:30:52.872
It never goes away.
00:30:52.872 --> 00:30:55.837
I don't, I don't ever have to try and find it.
00:30:55.857 --> 00:30:57.442
Um, to be inspired, I look at.
00:30:57.442 --> 00:30:59.866
Look to other things to be inspired, I look at.
00:30:59.866 --> 00:31:01.911
Look to other things to be inspired.
00:31:01.911 --> 00:31:03.654
I look to music, I look to fashion.
00:31:03.654 --> 00:31:05.798
Um, I look to?
00:31:05.798 --> 00:31:08.423
Um museums.
00:31:08.423 --> 00:31:11.307
I study other people's work, other people's arts.
00:31:11.307 --> 00:31:25.357
I follow many music artists and creatives um and social media, so I'm always looking at what they're doing and usually that's generating the ideas that come to me, which you'd mentioned earlier.
00:31:25.357 --> 00:31:27.944
Just an idea, bringing that to the world.
00:31:27.944 --> 00:31:41.189
But when I'm creating and it's something that I'm truly vibing with, it's a concept that I really want to dive into.
00:31:41.189 --> 00:31:57.009
A concept that I really want to dive into and I start working with it, coming up with sketches, coming up with color to play into it, or if I'm designing a product line or different things like that.
00:31:57.009 --> 00:32:25.515
For me, what happens is when I feel that energy of this is really starting to click and I'm enjoying it and I'm feeling into it energetically, because you can create something and be partly connected to it and partly disconnected to it, partly connected to it and partly disconnected to it.
00:32:25.515 --> 00:32:31.910
That disconnected component is you thinking about every single step that you're taking in that creative process.
00:32:33.257 --> 00:32:51.734
When you're in a flow state, or in that state of when you're really tuning into the energy of creation, really tuning into the energy of creation, the mind starts to fade in terms of the chatter that it's bringing up, saying you know, no, don't do it that way, no, don't do it this way.
00:32:51.734 --> 00:32:53.799
No, it's not perfect enough yet.
00:32:53.799 --> 00:32:56.366
You got to keep working on that area.
00:32:56.366 --> 00:33:13.170
When you're in that flow state, you're starting allowing the energy to keep moving, that flow state, you're starting allowing to the energy to keep moving, that gut noise dissipates and it goes away and you slip into kind of a portal for lack of a better word at this point.
00:33:13.170 --> 00:33:27.633
You slip into this portal where it's just you, the energy and the flow of creation, and that is when you can expand.
00:33:27.633 --> 00:33:29.234
That's when it starts to expand.
00:33:29.234 --> 00:33:32.323
It grows into multiple ideas and multiple things.
00:33:33.788 --> 00:33:44.718
Or, if you're staying in one singular piece that you're working on, that piece ultimately becomes something that you didn't even think it was when you first started.
00:33:44.718 --> 00:33:52.598
It becomes more than what you originally thought, what your brain was telling you you wanted it to be.
00:33:52.598 --> 00:34:02.458
It goes beyond that and becomes something completely different, which I believe those are the types of things that speak to people the most.
00:34:02.458 --> 00:34:09.744
Those are the things that touch people's lives, touch people's hearts, touch people's emotions.
00:34:09.744 --> 00:34:37.820
Those are the true connections, and that, in and of itself, starts to create a community without being necessarily a community, because whoever picks that piece up or buys that piece or is gifted that piece, the connection of line of energy, is still coming from you and you may not know who it's going to, but that line of energy is still intact.
00:34:37.820 --> 00:34:46.110
And that played into a little bit of what you spoke on earlier, maddox of things being connected all around us.
00:34:52.739 --> 00:34:58.244
You know, what you're saying has certainly played out in our experience.
00:34:58.244 --> 00:35:12.907
We ever could have possibly even conceived, when we started, just having little gatherings at our house to create more social life and to build our circle of friends.
00:35:12.907 --> 00:35:15.775
We never that was all we were doing.
00:35:15.775 --> 00:35:19.481
We thought, and the universe had a different plan and a different idea.
00:35:19.481 --> 00:35:31.733
Okay, um, I think that what you're describing plays into all kinds yes, definitely all kinds of creativity.
00:35:32.125 --> 00:35:38.659
I know, for me, the ideas just flow so easily.
00:35:38.659 --> 00:35:40.170
I don't ever have to.
00:35:40.170 --> 00:35:47.809
There's just rarely, ever, ever, a block, yeah, and it's not.
00:35:47.809 --> 00:35:54.952
But I think that oftentimes that I'm not finishing my sentences because I think faster than I can talk.
00:35:54.952 --> 00:36:05.195
Sometimes I think the when we get tripped up oftentimes is we try to force the idea.
00:36:05.195 --> 00:36:10.032
We want this idea, right, we want this idea.
00:36:10.032 --> 00:36:13.673
You know, correct, I want an idea.
00:36:13.673 --> 00:36:16.715
I'm sitting in front of the paper and I want to write a novel.
00:36:16.715 --> 00:36:25.336
I want the idea for my novel, and I don't know that it really works that way.
00:36:25.336 --> 00:36:32.007
You know, I always say you know, regardless of what you call it, god doesn't always give us what we want.
00:36:32.007 --> 00:36:38.175
Sometimes God gives us what we need Exactly, and so I just get in a quiet space.
00:36:42.054 --> 00:36:45.411
Now does the creative stuff and all the ideas come through anywhere?
00:36:45.411 --> 00:36:46.114
Any place?
00:36:46.114 --> 00:36:48.215
Yes, yes, anywhere.
00:36:48.215 --> 00:37:00.146
But the places where they show up the most are during meditation, when I'm walking out in nature, when I'm in the shower.
00:37:00.146 --> 00:37:10.581
But they come, you know, and it can come from overhearing some conversation at the next table in a restaurant.
00:37:10.581 --> 00:37:14.534
I'll just hear something that will just I'll just go, oh my God.
00:37:14.534 --> 00:37:21.496
Don't even know what they were talking about, but I just heard just enough that it sparked something, and something comes through.
00:37:21.496 --> 00:37:27.378
It could come from the words on a billboard going down the freeway, or the words of a song.
00:37:28.204 --> 00:37:29.568
We're always surrounded by it.
00:37:29.568 --> 00:37:50.525
It's just a matter of being open, and when you're in those states where you're not so easily, so readily distracted or pushed to the next thing, then you are a little more receptive, and so you can pick up on those things that may have been, and so you can pick up on those things that may have been stewing for a little bit.
00:37:51.105 --> 00:37:51.927
Yeah, absolutely, dwight.
00:37:51.927 --> 00:38:07.840
That is the beauty of it, and if we're able to be able to get that message to as many creatives as possible, that just be open.
00:38:07.840 --> 00:38:11.954
Yeah, rather than trying to think it out.
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