Dec. 22, 2025

#054: Ross von Rosenberg: What Do We Owe The Art That Wants To Be Born?

What happens when a meticulous planner meets a canvas that refuses to obey? We sit down with painter and creative director Ross von Rosenberg to unpack a bold shift from figurative storytelling to geometric abstraction—and the moment a red painting revealed the truth he was trying to control. Ross takes us inside the push and pull between precision and spontaneity, how tape lines and millimeter decisions became a language for feeling, and why the work started as a design exercise but turned into an emotional map of a life under pressure.

The conversation dives into the realities behind the art: pandemic uncertainty, a vulnerable IVF journey, and the arrival of his son via gestational surrogacy. Ross explains how fatherhood compressed time and sharpened intention, why short, focused sprints replaced long, meandering sessions, and how presence became more valuable than perfection. We also tackle the art-business puzzle—painting what sells versus painting what insists on being born—and Ross’s nuanced advice to younger creatives about betting on their craft before chasing corporate safety.

Threaded through it all is a thesis about becoming. Ross shares an “I am becoming” statement that names his next chapter: taking a smart leap of faith, trusting the work, and building safety from the inside out. Expect practical insights on process, career, and community, and a reminder that what you focus on expands—fear, or the art that wants to be made. If you’re navigating risk, craving more authenticity, or searching for the courage to step onto the invisible bridge, this one will meet you where you are and nudge you forward.

Enjoyed the conversation? Follow, share with a friend, and leave a quick review to help more creatives find the show.

Ross' Profile
Ross' Website

This is Maddox & Dwight! More than anything, we want to connect and communicate with you. We don't want to think of you as listeners. We want to think of you as community. So, scroll to the bottom of the show notes and click the SUBSCRIBE link. Thank you!

Thank you for listening to the For the Love of Creatives Podcast. If you are enjoying the podcast, please scroll to the bottom of the show notes and Rate & Review us. We would SO appreciate it.

Support the show

Become a SUBSCRIBER to Get Notified of New Episodes

Want to be a Featured Guest?

For the Love of Creatives Community

For the Love of Creatives Podcast

Rate and Review the Podcast on Apple or Spotify

00:00 - Welcome And Ross’s Creative Identity

02:53 - From Figurative To Abstract: A Shift

05:28 - Control On Canvas And In Life

09:53 - Discovering Meaning After The Paint Dries

13:33 - Planning, Precision, And The Red Piece

17:38 - Pandemic, IVF, And Emotional Weight

21:23 - Art, Commerce, And Affirmation

25:23 - Advice To Young Creatives And Risk

29:23 - Fatherhood, Time, And Urgency

33:23 - Patience, Presence, And Creative Flow

37:23 - Community, Influence, And Studio Choices

42:23 - Safety, Leap Of Faith, And Becoming

47:23 - I Am Becoming: Naming The Future

51:23 - Autonomy In Relationships And Parenting

01:07:18 - Gratitude And Closing Reflections

WEBVTT

00:00:58.379 --> 00:01:19.099
I am exerting control over the one thing, but even that is like fighting against me in a way of saying, like, you can only control so much, allow the chaos to happen, you know, um, allow some of the spontaneity and you know, stop fighting against it so much.

00:01:19.260 --> 00:01:36.299
So it was about like halfway, but it was that particular painting where it was like, I really realized these were coming from a what had started out with these ones on wood, were like I said, very formal, like, and just kind of like I was I was doing it almost a design, a purely aesthetic project.

00:01:36.539 --> 00:01:41.659
And then these, like I then realized I was like they were deeply emotional.

00:01:41.899 --> 00:01:44.060
Um, but it it took a while there.

00:01:44.140 --> 00:01:48.700
It just kind of like I said, it was kind of a it was kind of a light bulb going off.

00:01:59.739 --> 00:02:00.619
Hey there.

00:02:00.859 --> 00:02:04.700
Welcome to For the Love of Creatives Podcast.

00:02:04.859 --> 00:02:07.819
I'm Maddox and I'm here with Dwight.

00:02:08.140 --> 00:02:10.140
Hello, my co-host.

00:02:10.539 --> 00:02:14.300
Today, our guest is Ross von Rosenberg.

00:02:14.620 --> 00:02:16.460
Ross, welcome to the podcast.

00:02:16.620 --> 00:02:18.219
We're so glad to have you here.

00:02:18.620 --> 00:02:19.900
Thank you, Maddox and Dwight.

00:02:20.060 --> 00:02:21.900
I couldn't be happier to be here.

00:02:22.460 --> 00:02:27.020
Yes, we we had a fumble up the last time he had an appointment to record this.

00:02:27.340 --> 00:02:31.020
We uh got a little distracted and missed our own appointment.

00:02:31.259 --> 00:02:36.539
So this is take two, and we thank you so much for uh your grace and patience.

00:02:36.780 --> 00:02:43.020
Um, I'm gonna turn it over to you, Ross, and let you tell our listeners who you are and what you're about.

00:02:43.340 --> 00:02:43.659
Okay.

00:02:43.819 --> 00:02:44.859
Yeah, thank you.

00:02:45.020 --> 00:02:48.379
Um, yeah, so yeah, my name's Rasman Rosenberg.

00:02:48.539 --> 00:02:54.620
Um I'm I live in East Dallas, uh, and I'm I'm an artist.

00:02:54.780 --> 00:02:56.699
I've lifelong been an artist.

00:02:56.859 --> 00:03:01.500
I would even say at this point, I'm really a creative is a better description.

00:03:01.579 --> 00:03:11.819
Like my primary mode is is painting, but uh I've worked in photography, graphic design, I still work in graphic design, um, collage.

00:03:12.219 --> 00:03:16.539
I even write on occasion, uh, although I've never really published anything.

00:03:16.780 --> 00:03:24.379
But um I'm a person that I really like to consider myself as a creative to be an explorer.

00:03:24.699 --> 00:03:41.259
Um my interests as an artist tend to be a little bit kind of more 30,000 foot view above what are kind of more of the um the kind of like day-to-day earthly concerns, I guess, or whatnot.

00:03:41.419 --> 00:03:57.979
It's like I'm more kind of thinking about the bigger when I'm when I'm dealing with humans and human emotions, I'm thinking a little bit more of but broadly of like the universalistic, the universal quality of the human experience.

00:03:58.219 --> 00:04:00.460
And so that's kind of what I'm interested in.

00:04:00.539 --> 00:04:04.299
But then I'm also just interested in expression for its own sake.

00:04:04.460 --> 00:04:21.100
Um, and I think anybody who sees my my work or like goes to my website, like they'll see that like where I was at one time is like I am now in totally a different place, and I hope to win I'm 60 to be in a different place and 70 and so on.

00:04:21.579 --> 00:04:27.500
So um, you know, the finished products are great, um, but the journey is a big a big part.

00:04:27.660 --> 00:04:36.220
So isn't it beautiful that we get to go through that metamorphosis as many times as we like, and a few times when we don't like.

00:04:36.540 --> 00:04:36.860
Yeah.

00:04:37.100 --> 00:04:41.740
Yes, we change throughout our lives, and isn't it grand that that's the case?

00:04:41.900 --> 00:04:43.820
I don't understand people that don't like change.

00:04:44.300 --> 00:04:47.180
Well, sometimes it's a little hard when you're you're close to it.

00:04:47.340 --> 00:04:55.980
I mean, it's we're we're told in some of the the ancient traditions that we have to find the gift in everything.

00:04:56.220 --> 00:04:59.180
But it can be really hard when you're in the middle of it.

00:04:59.500 --> 00:05:01.180
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

00:05:01.420 --> 00:05:02.700
No, and that's the thing.

00:05:02.780 --> 00:05:14.460
And when you're in the middle of it, I feel like sometimes it's like you don't even, it's not even that you don't even realize it, but you maybe don't even realize how whatever it is is kind of exerting its power onto you.

00:05:14.620 --> 00:05:21.100
And then when you step back, you're like, why did I why did I make these decisions to create this?

00:05:21.340 --> 00:05:29.740
And then it all of a sudden it's like some a light bulb goes off, and you go, oh, this is what was it, this is what I was reacting to, you know.

00:05:30.140 --> 00:05:36.220
Um it's like the most recent, like the the show y'all, y'all came to those those abstract pieces.

00:05:36.380 --> 00:05:55.580
I didn't I didn't realize at the time, but like I was reacting to, and I think I mentioned this in the artist talk, I was reacting to feeling out of control about so many things in my life, with like my time, um uh, you know, time versus career versus all these things.

00:05:55.740 --> 00:06:01.980
And I was like basically exerting control on the canvas within an inch of its life.

00:06:02.140 --> 00:06:11.020
I was like, I'm going to control these things, but then you can see the tension of what I was creating fighting back against me a little bit.

00:06:11.260 --> 00:06:18.140
And it wasn't until like I was halfway through those I kind of just realized, I'm like, oh, I know what's happening here.

00:06:18.380 --> 00:06:29.500
And it's interesting because I think a lot of people don't always necessarily think of abstract colors and shapes and brushstrokes as like human and emotional, you know.

00:06:29.660 --> 00:06:41.660
It people kind of think of it more as as a aesthetic and decorative, and it's just like, no, it came from a very, very like deep place that I didn't realize was happening at the time.

00:06:41.980 --> 00:06:43.020
It is very deep.

00:06:43.100 --> 00:06:47.420
And just and because it's abstract, it doesn't have any any bearing on it.

00:06:47.500 --> 00:07:00.540
I, you know, I think it's interesting because you're describing realizing how representational it is of your life after you you work on the piece, after you paint the piece.

00:07:00.700 --> 00:07:08.780
And I I'm a baby artist, I'm a newer artist, I haven't been painting for a long time, and I am finding the same thing.

00:07:08.939 --> 00:07:19.660
I listened to artists talk about, you know, I was going through this, and so I sat down and poured it all out on canvas or poured it out in whatever medium they're working in.

00:07:19.980 --> 00:07:22.860
And I just can't relate to that at all.

00:07:23.020 --> 00:07:32.060
I mean, I hear it, but for me, when I paint, it's just my seven-year-old smearing pretty colors on a surface.

00:07:32.300 --> 00:07:32.540
Yeah.

00:07:32.939 --> 00:07:33.900
It's just, it's just fun.

00:07:33.980 --> 00:07:35.420
I'm just playing.

00:07:35.900 --> 00:07:41.260
But then, like you, afterward, I've been reflecting recently.

00:07:41.420 --> 00:07:49.580
I've I've been I've I painted a little bit, dabbled a little bit a few years ago, but now it's maybe been five or six months that I'm actively painting.

00:07:49.740 --> 00:07:49.900
Yeah.

00:07:50.060 --> 00:07:57.580
And I I sat last week or two, I don't know, two couple of weeks and really looked at the pieces that I've painted.

00:07:57.820 --> 00:07:59.900
And I I could see a theme.

00:08:00.060 --> 00:08:07.740
I could see how they correlated to what was going on inside of me at the time I painted them.

00:08:07.980 --> 00:08:11.580
And it was like I had never heard anybody describing it like that.

00:08:11.740 --> 00:08:17.020
Everybody else, all the artists that I had heard talk about it, it was always this pre-thought thing, you know.

00:08:17.180 --> 00:08:20.939
Yeah, I'm grieving, so I'm gonna pour my grief out onto the canvas.

00:08:21.420 --> 00:08:28.620
And to, you know, me, I'm thinking, gee, I'm not sure I'm a real artist because all I'm doing is just smearing pretty colors on the canvas.

00:08:28.780 --> 00:08:39.419
But when I had that moment when I could look back and realize how representational it was, some parts of them were reputational, what I've representational for what I was going through in the moment.

00:08:39.580 --> 00:08:41.980
And then there's this overall theme.

00:08:43.019 --> 00:08:49.740
You can see aspects of me on an ongoing basis in there.

00:08:49.899 --> 00:09:08.699
It's like yes, and it's it's it's been I would, and and this I'm leading it, I'm long leadway into a question, but yeah, um it's been really fabulous to realize that it was connected to me in a deeper level than I thought it was.

00:09:08.860 --> 00:09:09.100
Yeah.

00:09:09.259 --> 00:09:18.059
And so I'm wondering how long you had to paint, because you because you discover that it's after the painting too.

00:09:18.139 --> 00:09:24.219
You know, it's like you look back and you go, Oh, how long did you have to paint before you had that awareness?

00:09:24.299 --> 00:09:30.219
Or maybe you had it right away, or uh tell me a little story about how that unfolded, please.

00:09:30.539 --> 00:09:38.219
Yeah, no, it's interesting because um, and and it's like, yeah, it's like y'all show y'all saw my show on Art on Art on Maine.

00:09:38.379 --> 00:09:45.980
There was the the older work that was more figurative and stuff, you know, and had like you know, human figures, and it was a little bit more surrealistic and stuff.

00:09:46.139 --> 00:09:48.539
So it's like it's really interesting.

00:09:48.860 --> 00:09:56.379
I first kind of made, I made a conscious transition because I am very in a way calculated as an artist.

00:09:56.459 --> 00:10:06.779
I do a lot of planning, you know, I have a lot of doodles and stuff, and I really think about particularly prior when I was doing more representational work.

00:10:06.860 --> 00:10:13.419
It's like you're showing people, like I'm thinking about what's the story I'm telling here, why do I have these people doing this and stuff?

00:10:13.659 --> 00:10:25.819
But I made a conscious transition of like, I wanted to explore things that were looser, more abstract, less worried about narrative and things like that.

00:10:26.059 --> 00:10:31.179
So, which was really hard because it's like so many people do abstract artwork and whatnot.

00:10:31.339 --> 00:10:37.980
Like, and I so I wanted to do something that where I was like, it's not gonna look like what everybody else does.

00:10:38.139 --> 00:10:51.899
Like, so I thought about it for a long time and I started doing these pieces on wood, and they're very much a cousin to the the very, very tight geometric ones that that y'all have y'all saw at the show.

00:10:52.139 --> 00:10:57.819
Um, but those were very much kind of me just kind of exploring the space, so to speak.

00:10:57.980 --> 00:11:02.219
Like it was a very kind of like formal kind of exercise.

00:11:02.620 --> 00:11:12.699
And then I I switched up to the these ones on canvas, and I would say it was like midway, probably painting through the series.

00:11:12.779 --> 00:11:15.100
There was in particular, there was a piece.

00:11:15.339 --> 00:11:23.419
Um I don't know if y'all remember it, it was real red, and it was kind of like these rectangles that were kind of ticking down and twisting.

00:11:23.579 --> 00:11:27.019
And it was like I really felt like I was fighting it.

00:11:27.339 --> 00:11:31.899
And what was interesting is I had little sketches and had planned these.

00:11:32.219 --> 00:11:38.299
Um, because again, I like to plan, I like to have like a foundation, so I kind of know where I'm going.

00:11:38.860 --> 00:11:43.419
But it would always, all of these would always kind of tilt away from that.

00:11:43.500 --> 00:11:48.699
Like it was like they would take a life of their own, and it was that particular piece.

00:11:48.939 --> 00:12:17.819
I just felt like I just I the name of the piece is called like bend so far I fucking break, you know, and so I just felt like it was like I was about to bend and break, and I felt like I was fighting against the painting, and that was the moment where I realized that you know, probably like one in the morning on a Saturday, I realized like I am trying to organize chaos right here.

00:12:17.980 --> 00:12:44.059
Like, I feel like I am in chaos, I feel like I'm out of control, and so I am exerting control over the one thing, but even that is like fighting against me in a way of saying, like, you can only control so much, allow the chaos to happen, you know, um, allow some of the spontaneity and you know, stop fighting against it so much.

00:12:44.219 --> 00:13:01.259
So it was about like halfway, but it was that particular painting where it was like I really realized these were coming from a what had started out with these ones on wood, were like I said, very formal, like, and just kind of like I was I was doing it almost a design, a purely aesthetic project.

00:13:01.500 --> 00:13:06.620
And then these, like I then realized I was like they were deeply emotional.

00:13:06.860 --> 00:13:09.019
Um, but it it took a while there.

00:13:09.179 --> 00:13:13.659
It just kind of like I said, it was kind of a it was kind of a light bulb going off.

00:13:13.899 --> 00:13:24.299
You know, I I don't remember you, I I was there at the artist talk, and I don't remember you saying that it was all connected to control, but that makes sense, you know.

00:13:24.379 --> 00:13:43.419
When I, you know, and of course, viewers most people listen to this rather than see it if you see it on on uh YouTube, but um your art, what we saw, you know, um had uh well, first of all, I just want to say we we go to galleries like weekly.

00:13:43.500 --> 00:13:44.939
We we are all over it.

00:13:45.019 --> 00:13:48.299
We we are seeing art like all the time.

00:13:48.539 --> 00:13:49.259
That's awesome.

00:13:49.419 --> 00:13:51.339
I I wish I had the bandwidth to do that.

00:13:51.419 --> 00:13:51.899
That's awesome.

00:13:52.379 --> 00:14:02.539
We see a lot of art, and I can say without a doubt, I have never seen anything like the pieces that we saw, your pieces that day.

00:14:02.699 --> 00:14:07.899
They are very unique, but there was you're right, a level of control in those pieces.

00:14:08.059 --> 00:14:20.860
It was like it, I mean, I would just imagine that there was down to the millimeter measurements, and there was a precision, and the lines were.

00:14:21.019 --> 00:14:32.939
I don't know if you tape those off when you when you paint, but the the even that, you know, there is to be a precision with that tape when you're doing, especially when it's not a straight line, when it's a curve.

00:14:33.259 --> 00:14:35.100
Yeah, those with that tape.

00:14:35.579 --> 00:14:37.259
I did not paint the circles.

00:14:38.299 --> 00:14:45.579
It it the precision was something that you would it was so precise that you would have thought perhaps a machine did it.

00:14:45.740 --> 00:14:46.939
That's how precise it was.

00:14:47.179 --> 00:14:47.819
Yeah, yeah.

00:14:48.139 --> 00:14:49.819
Like I've just never seen anything like it.

00:14:49.899 --> 00:14:58.939
And then yet there were these gradations of color that were, it was it, it's a standout.

00:14:59.100 --> 00:15:02.059
We see a lot of art, and it it is definitely a standout.

00:15:02.219 --> 00:15:09.980
But I I love that you're talking about how it connects to your, you know, being feeling out of control and wanting to control something.

00:15:10.219 --> 00:15:23.339
And I relate to that because I have some control stuff myself, and I am trying to let go of control so I don't paint any straight lines on the paintings.

00:15:23.579 --> 00:15:38.059
It's it's all very organic shapes because I and they run together and and there's no tape involved because I'm trying to explore the opposite of what I have been, which is kind of a little bit of a control person.

00:15:38.219 --> 00:15:38.459
Yeah.

00:15:38.620 --> 00:15:46.939
So it's it's just fascinating to me how all of the emotion and so much of our psyche and things come into it.

00:15:47.500 --> 00:15:48.459
Yeah, yeah.

00:15:48.620 --> 00:16:01.659
It was really, it was really an interesting, I think it was a really the first time I can remember where it was like my subconscious had was working on me in a way that I wasn't aware of, you know, initially.

00:16:01.819 --> 00:16:07.100
It was just like I had I had no idea what I was reacting to at the beginning.

00:16:07.419 --> 00:16:20.699
And um and then yeah, it was just like, and that's the thing, it was it was, you know, still tail end of you know, working from home with COVID and all that stuff.

00:16:20.860 --> 00:16:24.779
And then, you know, at the time too, I was working on those.

00:16:25.019 --> 00:16:29.339
We were uh we were going through the IVF process and stuff.

00:16:29.579 --> 00:16:33.019
And so it was like just everything felt like a lot.

00:16:33.500 --> 00:16:39.740
Um and um well, and you are describing big live things that you can't control.

00:16:39.899 --> 00:16:55.579
You can't control the pandemic, you can't control whether or not the I IVF were I mean lots of things left up to sh just chance, it feels like and the stakes are are great at at each turn on those.

00:16:55.899 --> 00:16:58.299
I mean, IVF is expensive.

00:16:58.779 --> 00:17:00.939
Yes, and it's it's a commitment.

00:17:01.100 --> 00:17:20.059
I mean, beyond the the financial component, you you are making you're drawing a line in the sand and making some hard decisions about committing to a course of action that can when it ends poorly, it it can be I mean, it it it can it can end in death.

00:17:20.220 --> 00:17:23.980
I mean it can end in a a lot of uh heartache.

00:17:24.620 --> 00:17:27.980
Well, and and the same can be said of of abstract art.

00:17:28.140 --> 00:17:37.340
When you start a series, when you started that particular series, it's it's so individual and like its own thing.

00:17:37.580 --> 00:17:41.740
There's this point of is any got anybody gonna buy this?

00:17:41.980 --> 00:17:42.380
You know?

00:17:43.100 --> 00:17:45.340
Yeah, yeah, will this will this sell?

00:17:45.500 --> 00:17:49.660
And your painting, just for the listeners to know, your paintings are huge.

00:17:49.900 --> 00:17:58.220
So there's a really expensive wood substrate going on here, and then there is like an insane amount of of paint.

00:17:58.300 --> 00:18:00.060
It's very expensive to do this.

00:18:00.380 --> 00:18:03.980
And to that point, it it's it cannot be said enough.

00:18:04.220 --> 00:18:14.940
I I've recently had a lot of discussions around that whole argument around whether you you do what it takes to eat or you do what feeds your soul.

00:18:15.180 --> 00:18:29.100
And there's there's something about your pieces that when uh they're viewed, when they're experienced, they translate into there being something more there.

00:18:29.340 --> 00:18:36.300
There is something that is beyond just having uh a visual vocabulary.

00:18:36.460 --> 00:18:42.380
It it's uh it really you look at it and you can almost feel it looking back.

00:18:43.500 --> 00:18:44.700
Yeah, yeah.

00:18:44.940 --> 00:18:53.340
No, that's the thing, is it's like I I really want them to have like a a sense the way I describe it is like it's almost like a sense of place.

00:18:53.580 --> 00:19:02.700
You know, it it's like it's not a room, it's not a monument, it's not a landscape, but then it kind of feels like that.

00:19:02.779 --> 00:19:15.500
It's it's like if the that's someplace I could go there, whether you know, uh physically or emotionally or you know, in some metaphorical way, like um, so I love hearing that.

00:19:15.580 --> 00:19:16.620
Like, thank you.

00:19:17.259 --> 00:19:21.340
Well, and in layman's terms, it is not commercial art.

00:19:21.660 --> 00:19:26.460
No, no, you know, it is just so far from commercial art.

00:19:26.620 --> 00:19:35.340
It's and to me, I would say if I had to guess without you saying, I would guess that this wasn't you painting what you thought would sell.

00:19:35.420 --> 00:19:39.019
This was you painting what was just wanting to be birthed.

00:19:39.580 --> 00:19:52.779
Yes, yeah, yeah, because definitely like the stuff that started, like the ones that are started on like the stained wood that were, like I said, like the early cousin of where these went.

00:19:53.019 --> 00:20:06.860
Like those were a little bit more of like again, a formal, a little bit more of a commercial exercise, you know, because like so much of the figurative work, like you know, those figurative pieces at the show, it's like people love it.

00:20:07.019 --> 00:20:11.180
They they they think it looks really great, they love the artistry of it.

00:20:11.340 --> 00:20:15.500
But it's also it's it's a tough sell when it's someone's face and someone's body.

00:20:15.660 --> 00:20:23.340
It's like, you know, they're like, I really like that, but I don't know if I'd want that on the wall of my house, like when people are coming in and out, you know.

00:20:23.500 --> 00:20:37.019
So it was like when I went to and started those ones that are on the stained wood, which I didn't have any of those at at Art on Maine, that was a little bit more of like kind of dabbling and a little bit more of a commercial concern.

00:20:37.180 --> 00:20:40.460
But then it's interesting of how it then it did transition.

00:20:40.779 --> 00:20:47.580
These ones on Canvas were just like, okay, taking that experiment.

00:20:48.060 --> 00:20:51.019
And doing this is what I really want to do.

00:20:51.340 --> 00:20:53.420
And if people like it, great.

00:20:53.660 --> 00:20:55.900
If people don't, I don't give a shit.

00:20:56.860 --> 00:21:06.620
So Ross, I want to dive just a little bit deeper into that because this is a common conversation with anybody that creates something that they sell.

00:21:07.500 --> 00:21:19.740
And that is how do you determine whether you create what you what you wants to be birthed, what you you love to create versus what you believe will sell?

00:21:20.140 --> 00:21:35.740
I mean, we've heard some controversy and we've heard some theory that, you know, if you take if you have faith and take the plunge and paint what you love to paint, that it will sell.

00:21:35.980 --> 00:21:40.300
And then there's other artists that have come with they've told us completely, I've sold out.

00:21:40.380 --> 00:21:42.460
I don't paint anything that I really want to paint.

00:21:42.779 --> 00:21:44.779
I paint what I know will sell.

00:21:44.940 --> 00:21:49.820
But they also said say that that always it dims their light.

00:21:49.900 --> 00:21:51.980
It it well, it does more than dim their light.

00:21:52.060 --> 00:21:56.300
It it turns their painting into just a job.

00:21:56.700 --> 00:21:58.300
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

00:21:58.460 --> 00:22:03.420
I know a lot of people who fit in both of those camps or kind of straddle those.

00:22:03.660 --> 00:22:09.660
And, you know, I think I for the most part have always painted what I want to paint.

00:22:09.820 --> 00:22:18.140
Uh a big part of the reason of that is is because I've always had a, you know, I've always had a corporate job in in advertising.

00:22:18.300 --> 00:22:24.540
So it's like I don't have to sell, I've never had to sell paintings to eat, you know, or put a roof over my head.

00:22:24.620 --> 00:22:29.900
So it's more of like um I get to explore and do what I want to do.

00:22:29.980 --> 00:22:49.340
And when that intersects with commerce, like in, you know, someone wanting to put it on their wall, it's great, just from, you know, of course, the money standpoint, but it's even greater because it's somebody really accepting something that I love and care about, not a it's not a product, right?

00:22:49.420 --> 00:22:53.100
It's it's like a part of me and and getting someone to react in that way.

00:22:53.420 --> 00:22:54.779
It's an affirmation.

00:22:55.180 --> 00:22:56.380
Yeah, exactly.

00:22:56.540 --> 00:22:57.019
Exactly.

00:22:57.100 --> 00:22:58.220
It's affirmation.

00:22:58.380 --> 00:23:10.779
Like I um I always joke like with anybody like in my family, you know, whether it's like my wife or my folks, like, you know, and they're always like, Well, we really love this paint.

00:23:10.860 --> 00:23:12.860
Oh, it's so good, you're so good, blah, blah, blah, blah.

00:23:12.940 --> 00:23:14.940
And I'm like, that's great.

00:23:15.180 --> 00:23:19.500
And I've always gonna appreciate the encouragement and totally believe it.

00:23:19.580 --> 00:23:40.060
But I'm like, but also y'all are biased, and so there will be never more it the bias will it will never mean as much as a total stranger walking into a gallery and either having an emotional reaction to something they're created and or like taking it home with them, you know?

00:23:40.380 --> 00:23:49.180
And that to me, it's it's it's the ultimate affirmation because it's like this person doesn't know me from anywhere.

00:23:49.340 --> 00:24:00.940
They just they're purely reacting to what I put out in the world that was personal to, you know, any number of degrees or from the moment and time it was created.

00:24:01.420 --> 00:24:04.540
So I'm fortunate in that way.

00:24:04.779 --> 00:24:07.980
Um that said though, it's really it's really interesting.

00:24:08.140 --> 00:24:18.060
I I've met a lot of people, and I've had a lot of like because I'm in the the like corporate world as uh in advertising, is like a creative director.

00:24:18.220 --> 00:24:32.860
So I've had a lot of people who are like in the corporate world that that I work with or adjacent to, and like let's say they've got like um a family friend or a nephew or somebody who's graduated from college and who's an artist, and they always bring them to me.

00:24:33.019 --> 00:24:39.420
They want them to talk to me because they're like, you know, Ross has the corporate job, but he's still out and he's still doing the art and stuff.

00:24:39.580 --> 00:24:52.700
And you know, once upon a time, I would talk about how um, yeah, having like a good, like solid job and whatnot, like it's it's nice because it allows me, again, like I said, to not have to paint to eat.

00:24:52.779 --> 00:24:54.620
So you really get to explore.

00:24:54.940 --> 00:24:57.340
My advice has changed over the years.

00:24:57.580 --> 00:25:13.820
My advice is now, particularly those people coming out of school or anything, is I'm like, don't get a corporate job, go do what you want and explore it now because you're young, you're out of college, your mistakes don't cost much.

00:25:14.779 --> 00:25:20.220
When you don't you don't have a wife and kids to feed either, or a husband and and kids to feed.

00:25:20.540 --> 00:25:22.620
Yeah, you only have you.

00:25:22.779 --> 00:25:28.860
You can live in a shitty basement apartment if that's what you want and pursue your passion.

00:25:29.180 --> 00:25:39.820
Do that, and then if that doesn't work, you can always like if you got a degree and XY, you can always then go back and get the corporate the corporate world is always gonna be there.

00:25:40.060 --> 00:25:43.820
But like, so I now tell people, I'm like, go for it.

00:25:44.060 --> 00:25:46.860
Like, go for it, and if you fail, that's fine.

00:25:47.019 --> 00:25:51.900
It's easier to fail when you're 28 than when you're you know 38.

00:25:52.300 --> 00:25:55.740
So am I am I hearing that looking back?

00:25:55.900 --> 00:25:59.980
I mean, not necessarily regrettable, but do you wish you had done that?

00:26:00.779 --> 00:26:02.540
Part of me does, yeah, yeah.

00:26:02.779 --> 00:26:06.540
But at the same time, you know, your path is your path.

00:26:06.860 --> 00:26:08.779
Who knows where I would have ended up?

00:26:09.019 --> 00:26:17.100
Um and you know, I'm I'm happy with with my relationships and my life overall.

00:26:17.500 --> 00:26:34.300
Um, but yeah, I do I do kind of like think back about like having a little bit more not the art, it's not the artistic freedom, it's the artistic freedom time, you know, um, or just like better harnessing that time.

00:26:34.460 --> 00:26:39.340
You know, you're out of school and you know, you're you have so many other concerns.

00:26:39.500 --> 00:26:43.580
It's like you got a job, you're trying to meet people, you know, and things like that.

00:26:43.740 --> 00:26:56.300
And so there's, I guess, also a lot of times where I'm like, I think back a little bit and I'm like, I maybe should have stayed in on instead of going out on that pointless Saturday night, I should have stayed in and worked on my craft a little bit more.

00:26:56.540 --> 00:27:06.220
But um, but you know, I also believe at the same time it's never too late to kind of like you know transition to pursue your passions, you know.

00:27:06.779 --> 00:27:07.259
I agree.

00:27:07.420 --> 00:27:08.779
It is never too late.

00:27:08.940 --> 00:27:15.019
Here, here I am in the early stages of painting, and I just celebrated my 69th birthday.

00:27:15.259 --> 00:27:15.980
Oh, that's awesome.

00:27:16.380 --> 00:27:17.980
And I'm going for it, you know.

00:27:18.460 --> 00:27:19.259
I'm going for it.

00:27:19.420 --> 00:27:24.700
I'm I'm actively seeking an artist's studio right now because I I want to get out of the home.

00:27:24.860 --> 00:27:28.380
I want to have that dedicated place to do that.

00:27:28.700 --> 00:27:36.220
Um I had another question that I was thinking about, but it may have just gone away.

00:27:36.940 --> 00:27:45.580
In in that uh moment where you you bring it back, I just want to call out how in the particular lies the universal.

00:27:46.140 --> 00:27:54.300
And there was a point where both of you shared exactly what your journey has been.

00:27:55.019 --> 00:28:25.580
And while they weren't exactly the same, there were parts that definitely rhymed in both of your paths, you know, whether it's you uh have uh uh had to deal with a level of needing that control in whichever context and using your art as a a therapeutic uh method of letting that go, of taming that beast.

00:28:26.060 --> 00:28:26.380
Yeah.

00:28:26.700 --> 00:28:26.940
Yeah.

00:28:27.660 --> 00:28:28.460
It's amazing.

00:28:28.540 --> 00:28:30.140
Uh you you both needed to hear it.

00:28:30.220 --> 00:28:47.580
As I uh it's funny, uh Ross, as you were sharing, I was I was thinking, wow, this really applies to someone who has been a beauty professional for the past 40 years doing hair and makeup that had to be exactly what you planned from the start.

00:28:48.700 --> 00:28:49.660
Yeah, yeah.

00:28:49.980 --> 00:28:51.019
No, absolutely.

00:28:51.180 --> 00:28:53.019
Yeah, and and that's the thing.

00:28:53.180 --> 00:28:55.180
It's like everything is always changing, right?

00:28:55.420 --> 00:29:28.940
I mean, um, because yeah, obviously, like the big, like, the big new thing that's like just extremely exciting and but like it's like also like, oh my god, like so much, you know, is like, yeah, I'm I'm a father now, you know, is like you know, my wife and I were fortunate to, you know, welcome our our son into the world, like, you know, is the because I mentioned, you know, the the IVF process, which, you know, yeah, that time when I was when I was painting those, it's like, you know, we went through all that.

00:29:29.100 --> 00:29:33.900
And the first transfer, because uh, we used a gestational surrogate.

00:29:34.060 --> 00:29:36.779
Um, the first transfer didn't take.

00:29:37.019 --> 00:29:39.100
You know, it didn't take.

00:29:39.420 --> 00:29:56.140
And um, you know, it uh I'd I'd made uh there's a there's a painting kind of behind me, that one right there, that was at the time, I don't know if you can see it, like the circle, yes.

00:29:56.620 --> 00:30:03.580
Yeah, that you know, I kind of had made in an you know, in honor of you know, our process and our idea.

00:30:03.820 --> 00:30:11.340
And I um and yeah, and it was like I finished it, and then it was like a couple weeks later we found out it didn't take.

00:30:11.660 --> 00:30:17.580
And um so it's like, you know, that painting ended up taking on a whole new meaning.

00:30:17.740 --> 00:30:20.220
But then we went through the process again.

00:30:20.700 --> 00:30:25.259
Um, you know, there was a lot of a lot of pain and a lot of work.

00:30:25.420 --> 00:30:32.779
I mean, so much of it, like, you know, it's for me, it was like, you know, it was the emotional pain.

00:30:32.860 --> 00:30:41.740
But I mean, for my wife, like, you know, those meta, it's the medicines on top of it, like, because it's like the hormones and all the things that does to your body.

00:30:41.900 --> 00:30:45.980
Like, um, but you know, it took.

00:30:46.380 --> 00:30:48.620
And uh, you know, here we are.

00:30:48.860 --> 00:30:55.019
So October 18th, you know, we welcomed Ezra von Rosenberg into the world.

00:30:55.340 --> 00:31:05.259
So uh, and he's growing like a weed, which I'm like telling him, like, soon your dad's not gonna be able to hold you anymore.

00:31:06.620 --> 00:31:14.060
He's a big he's a big boy, so you know, it and that now it's kind of like what it's interesting.

00:31:14.140 --> 00:31:35.820
It's like it's interesting, like it's a perfect example of like, so I painted that for a particular reason, something in anticipation of something, and then that thing didn't work out, but then in the end it did, and so it's kind of almost like it's a little bit like you know, um, you know, maybe he just kind of knew, hey, you guys aren't ready yet.

00:31:35.980 --> 00:31:38.779
So I I'm not I'm not showing up yet, you know.

00:31:38.940 --> 00:31:43.740
You you aren't ready, you need a little more time, you need another year, another nine months.

00:31:44.060 --> 00:31:46.940
And so, you know, it was like, okay.

00:31:47.340 --> 00:31:48.540
And now he's here.

00:31:48.700 --> 00:31:52.300
I don't know that we're anymore ready, you know, but we're making it work.

00:31:53.980 --> 00:31:54.380
I don't know.

00:31:54.460 --> 00:31:57.180
You know, he showed up, so survey says you must be ready.

00:31:57.340 --> 00:31:58.700
Yeah, yeah, exactly.

00:31:58.860 --> 00:32:04.860
It's hard to tell because all you know, it's the uh the communication is just like it's like the different cries, right?

00:32:04.940 --> 00:32:13.180
Like, and and you start to learn, it's like this one means I'm hungry, this one means uh I have to burp or I'm hot, you know.

00:32:13.420 --> 00:32:23.740
The I have no idea that like the the gas strict issues were so difficult, like you know, tummy gas or or or burp gas or whatnot.

00:32:23.900 --> 00:32:32.940
I remember being like deathly afraid of the idea of having to deal with diapers, you know, because I'm just like, oh gosh, I'm gonna get I'm gonna get peed on or pooped on or whatever.

00:32:33.019 --> 00:32:35.340
And you get over that so quickly.

00:32:36.620 --> 00:32:38.940
You know, you get over that so quickly.

00:32:39.100 --> 00:33:00.540
And um, and yeah, and that's the the gap, because it's just like you you then you start to know, you're like, okay, I know he's uncomfortable because of XYZ, but like all you can do is like you know, burp or you know, maybe some like gripe water or like the bicycle kicks with the legs, you know, but like meanwhile, it's like it's gonna work itself out, it's gonna work itself out.

00:33:00.700 --> 00:33:05.340
Meanwhile, he's you know screaming bloody murder, the only way he knows how.

00:33:05.420 --> 00:33:09.420
Like, and he's like, I'm sorry, I'm sorry, I'm trying to make it better.

00:33:09.980 --> 00:33:21.259
It sounds like Ezra is a valuable teacher, too, because going back to the control issues and that whole idea of being ready.

00:33:21.500 --> 00:33:27.420
Yeah, you're you're never going to arrive at that point where things are perfect.

00:33:27.660 --> 00:33:33.259
We're always becoming into where we need to go next.

00:33:33.660 --> 00:33:35.100
Yeah, absolutely.

00:33:35.340 --> 00:33:38.140
And so that is a that is a learning process.

00:33:38.300 --> 00:33:48.860
I mean, and and um it it it teach he teaches you how to be patient, he teaches you how to listen.

00:33:49.580 --> 00:33:54.380
Um both of which are things that like I'm I'm getting better at, you know.

00:33:54.540 --> 00:33:58.779
Um he teaches you how to value your time, you know.

00:33:59.180 --> 00:34:18.539
Um like it's it's funny, like over the past, you know, oh since I've been on on paternity leave, like I used to, and still on occasion, I I probably haven't touched sat down at my easel now in a couple weeks, but I have a little bit while I've I've been on leave.

00:34:18.699 --> 00:34:24.619
But like I definitely sit down with more like intention and urgency than I used to before.

00:34:24.779 --> 00:34:33.500
I used to like kind of take my time, sit and you know, oh I'll put a movie on on my computer, you know, and I'll kind of watch a movie while I paint.

00:34:33.659 --> 00:34:36.940
Now I'm just like, no, I'll just pop my earbuds and put on some music.

00:34:37.019 --> 00:34:40.460
And it's like I go, because I'm like, I got he's taking a nap.

00:34:40.619 --> 00:34:43.500
He's gonna maybe I maybe got an hour, hour and a half.

00:34:43.659 --> 00:34:47.019
If I'm lucky, and it's time to get some things done.

00:34:47.259 --> 00:34:52.219
Um, so it really makes created a search, uh, a an edge of of urgency.

00:34:52.539 --> 00:34:53.579
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

00:34:53.659 --> 00:35:00.619
It really makes you like value your time and um just cut out all the BS, right?

00:35:00.779 --> 00:35:11.739
Like, because it's like you know, soon like it's like okay, I'm gonna I'm gonna have to tend to him, or my wife is gonna, or we're both gonna have to tend to him or whatnot, and be there for him.

00:35:12.059 --> 00:35:20.299
Because yeah, literally, like they they have no means of helping themselves at all, at all.

00:35:21.099 --> 00:35:29.099
So, you know, you are you are everything, and it's it's wonderful, it's empowering, but it's a lot of pressure, you know?

00:35:29.420 --> 00:35:48.219
And um I think the other part of not just like, you know, it's like every time, you know, he's crying about something, it's like trying to solve a puzzle, you know, because there's very obvious is hungry or does he need a diaper change, but like it's like, is he too hot?

00:35:48.379 --> 00:35:49.179
Is he too cold?

00:35:49.339 --> 00:35:55.500
Is it like, you know, so you try all these things and you're constantly and the puzzle changes like every time.

00:35:55.659 --> 00:36:19.819
So there's that patience, but I also think I the part of patience that I'm learning too is it's like as much as I, you know, he's like this adorable little you know, butterball, like it's um I'm very impatient to know the man he's gonna be and like share all the like things with him, you know.

00:36:19.980 --> 00:36:34.299
I like here's the music that daddy listens to, like, here's the movie, here's art, like here is I'm impatient to like, you know, share the the world with him because that's how I communicate, you know.

00:36:34.379 --> 00:36:43.739
So I'm impatient for him to understand that level of communication because right now he he doesn't, you know, it's like it's a very it's a very intuitive level.

00:36:43.899 --> 00:36:53.259
So it's like I'm having to learn to be better about those things and be patient, like all that other stuff is is gonna happen, you know, in do in due time.

00:36:53.339 --> 00:37:01.420
But I'm I'm hearing the balance is with learning patience and injecting presence.

00:37:03.099 --> 00:37:19.420
Because the the best case scenario is, and if I may invoke uh Charles Dickens quote, you you're going to raise a fig tree in the way that it should grow so that in your later years you can rest in the shade of it.

00:37:19.819 --> 00:37:20.859
Yeah, yeah.

00:37:21.179 --> 00:37:22.699
And enjoy the figs.

00:37:23.099 --> 00:37:26.219
Yeah, yeah, absolutely, absolutely.

00:37:26.460 --> 00:37:37.739
No, and um, so yeah, it's just kind of like it's super exciting, but it's like, yeah, it's like patience and areas you didn't even anticipate, right?

00:37:37.980 --> 00:37:47.259
And um, and then yeah, just having the experience and the presence, I mean, it opens up it gets the creative brain flowing too.

00:37:47.420 --> 00:38:00.139
So it's also, I'm like, uh, you know, I'm having all of these ideas and and um like creative impulses, but then also finding finding the time and also having the patience for myself of like there'll be time for that.

00:38:00.299 --> 00:38:04.539
You are gonna get to like, you know, have time to like paint and create again.

00:38:04.619 --> 00:38:07.899
It's it's all gonna happen and you're gonna get to share that with him.

00:38:08.139 --> 00:38:11.579
So, you know, uh that's very exciting.

00:38:11.819 --> 00:38:13.019
Yeah, yeah.

00:38:13.659 --> 00:38:20.619
To to be able to share your your love with him and and probably you could probably start to share it before he's old enough to even understand.

00:38:20.699 --> 00:38:24.619
And and you know, it's kind of like I I think we wait sometimes.

00:38:24.779 --> 00:38:27.019
We wait until we think they understand.

00:38:27.179 --> 00:38:32.299
It's like I told somebody the other day, I would be a very unorthodox parent if I were a parent.

00:38:32.619 --> 00:38:39.579
I would teach my children about sex before they even understood.

00:38:39.819 --> 00:38:43.579
Yeah, because if you say it and they don't understand, then it doesn't mean anything.

00:38:43.659 --> 00:38:47.579
And if they understand, then they're old enough to hear it.

00:38:47.819 --> 00:38:49.259
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

00:38:49.339 --> 00:38:50.059
That makes sense.

00:38:50.219 --> 00:38:52.779
I would I would and I would do it before they reached puberty.

00:38:52.859 --> 00:38:58.539
We waited until they're 18 and they reach puberty at 12, average age, which doesn't make sense to me.

00:38:58.779 --> 00:39:01.019
Yeah, but yeah, that's a whole different topic.

00:39:01.179 --> 00:39:14.699
But I I kind of want to shift gears a little bit and hear a little bit about how community or what what role community plays in your creative process.

00:39:15.739 --> 00:39:20.460
Yeah, so as a whole, creative, not just painting, but as a whole, creative process.

00:39:20.859 --> 00:39:27.099
I mean, definitely is um I'm a I'm a sponge.

00:39:27.179 --> 00:39:43.980
Uh so I'm always like to be able looking and seeing what's out there, and not just obviously I'm primarily a painter, but like I'm constantly consuming, you know, film, literature, different mediums, um music.

00:39:44.539 --> 00:39:48.460
So, and there's a lot of that that informs what I do.

00:39:48.940 --> 00:39:52.059
Um, and I'm kind of a pretty big nerd about it.

00:39:52.219 --> 00:39:56.779
Like um, I'm usually the person people come to for movie recommendations.

00:39:56.940 --> 00:40:03.819
Like I I can I can recommend like you know, all sorts of things a lot of times that people have never heard of.

00:40:04.059 --> 00:40:07.019
But um You and Dwight have that in common.

00:40:07.339 --> 00:40:07.980
Yeah.

00:40:08.940 --> 00:40:17.899
Well, yeah, and I, you know, that's that's one of the things, like it's funny, like um, yeah, having a having a newborn and you're stuck there on the couch, you put a movie on.

00:40:17.980 --> 00:40:19.739
It's like they have no idea what's going on.

00:40:19.819 --> 00:40:21.980
So I'm like, oh, I totally have time.

00:40:22.219 --> 00:40:25.179
And you know, mom's it's her turn to sleep.

00:40:25.420 --> 00:40:31.819
And so I'm like, it's totally makes sense now to watch all these like foreign movies that I I have in my Amazon queue.

00:40:31.980 --> 00:40:37.980
So it's like, all right, buddy, we're watching this uh Russian warm war film from 1985.

00:40:38.139 --> 00:40:44.299
Like it's pretty horrific, but you're a baby, you're looking at me, don't worry about it.

00:40:44.859 --> 00:40:49.899
So um, but yeah, I I'm constantly taking everything in.

00:40:49.980 --> 00:40:53.899
I I don't get out to galleries and stuff near as much as I'd like to.

00:40:54.139 --> 00:41:02.219
Uh that's kind of one of the you know burdens with having like um you know a a corporate job.

00:41:02.460 --> 00:41:17.019
Um, because unfortunately it's like been a constant like um gripe of mine is I'm like, I don't know why always people like want to start like uh particularly like a lot of like gallery shows on like five o'clock on a Thursday.

00:41:17.339 --> 00:41:23.179
Cause it's like my my work hours are not like it's not even over until six, you know.

00:41:23.339 --> 00:41:29.500
So I'm just like I'm like, who has time to deal with because then you you gotta leave the house at 4 30.

00:41:29.659 --> 00:41:31.420
Like I'm like, how does that work?

00:41:31.579 --> 00:41:35.659
So um, but I try and get out there when when we can, you know.

00:41:35.899 --> 00:41:44.299
We uh we took we took Ezra to go see uh the open seater studios, because I've got friends who have studios and stuff down there.

00:41:44.460 --> 00:41:56.859
So he got he got some to you know meet some some of dad some of daddy's friends, you know, and um you know, and some of them have you know recent littles too.

00:41:56.940 --> 00:42:00.859
So it's like these are gonna be your buddies growing up, which is really cool.

00:42:01.179 --> 00:42:08.299
Um, because I'm excited for him to grow up in a creative community and creative environment, you know.

00:42:08.619 --> 00:42:30.619
Um and I mean, otherwise though, I would say there are some ways, like just because like I it's like I'm very kind of erratic about getting to shows and things, that like I think there's a lot of ways I would like to incorporate community into my process that I'm not able to sometimes.

00:42:30.859 --> 00:42:41.339
Um I like I'm an only child, so like I don't have any siblings, so I very much have a little bit like man on an island syndrome sometimes.

00:42:41.579 --> 00:42:48.299
Like I'm I I um I'm a very social person, so I'd like to be out among people.

00:42:48.539 --> 00:42:55.259
At the same time, I'm somebody who can be in a room with by myself for days, and it doesn't bother me.

00:42:56.699 --> 00:42:58.699
The best of both worlds.

00:43:02.859 --> 00:43:30.139
Kind of incorporate some more community aspects into my work and my process, and you know, I think that's I think that's just something that's gonna take like time, you know, as I transition and more into becoming a parent and then you know, just making some other life transitions that you know we're working on as a family to kind of make things more of a cohesive unit in the here in the future, you know.

00:43:30.299 --> 00:43:39.019
So do you think there's ever a time when you might take your your art studio out of the house and have it someplace where there might be more artists?

00:43:39.339 --> 00:43:44.619
You know, I yeah, I I'm more open to that than I ever have been.

00:43:45.019 --> 00:43:59.099
Um and you know, I think that kind of speaks a little bit to that kind of time and and and place and where things maybe are and our lives and and you know, some of my career choices and things like that.

00:43:59.420 --> 00:44:04.139
Because right now it's like having it in the house, the convenience of it is is nice.

00:44:04.219 --> 00:44:06.379
It kind of helps like save that time.

00:44:06.699 --> 00:44:12.059
And then also obviously, like um having an off spot site space, it's an extra expense.

00:44:12.219 --> 00:44:24.219
So it's like is it right now the calculation is like, is the expense justified by how much I'd be able to go from here over there to use it, you know.

00:44:24.379 --> 00:44:44.859
But that said, it's like, you know, I've got friends who have really great setups where it's like they're able to have their kiddo in there with them, and you know, if they're and then a computer set up, and like if their wife wants to come in or their partner wants to come in and spend time and it's kind of like it's not just a studio, it's like a family space, but it's a workspace.

00:44:45.179 --> 00:45:07.579
So seeing that kind of exist in um you know, be actualized is I think a really kind of expi inspiring thing that is making me kind of reconsider that, but it's still it it needs to, I need to make sure it have I'm I'm going and using it enough to justify like the expense, you know.

00:45:07.899 --> 00:45:28.859
I I wonder if there will be a time where there will be, I mean, when Ezra's not a baby anymore, yeah, and he's you know, running around like a house of fire, and uh the distractions might be so great that you would perhaps need a space away from the the house itself where everybody is.

00:45:29.500 --> 00:45:30.379
Yeah, yeah.

00:45:30.699 --> 00:45:54.139
No, it's a distinct possibility, and and yeah, and I think I think that's all like part of that transition of kind of making, you know, there's gonna be a lot of, you know, starting with this, I think throughout the end of this year and into next year, there's gonna be a lot of like, I think for the better, life changes and stuff that you know we're working hard and working towards.

00:45:54.379 --> 00:45:57.980
And um I'm optimistic and excited about it.

00:45:58.059 --> 00:46:29.179
And I think I think the root of a lot of it is also just like I think there's a little bit of part of me that I've been working on of like, you know, I think I'm sometimes a little bit, I'm a little bit scared of being who I am, you know, and so it's like really kind of embracing that and running with it and going like embracing that in a way that where it's like it's gonna be okay and it's gonna work itself out and we're gonna be just fine.

00:46:29.500 --> 00:46:43.420
And um because it's like not being scared, being not being scared of who you are, it's like it allows you to kind of really come into and kind of unlock your unlock whatever your power is.

00:46:43.579 --> 00:46:48.379
And so I think that's I think there's a part of me that's been holding back for a long time.

00:46:48.859 --> 00:46:54.859
And uh I'm excited that I think that that's gonna change.

00:46:55.019 --> 00:47:10.299
And then I'm I'm excited to have, you know, friends and you know, like my wife and my new son, who I think are gonna continue and are continuing to embrace me unlocking that and really bet on myself.

00:47:10.619 --> 00:47:16.059
What a perfect segue into our conversation about becoming.

00:47:17.259 --> 00:47:18.699
Tell tell a little bit more.

00:47:18.859 --> 00:47:21.500
I mean, let's be let's be specific.

00:47:21.659 --> 00:47:35.500