#057: Tricia Seymour Shares What It Means to Finally Choose Her Own Voice

Finding A New Skin As Artist

SPEAKER_01 0:35

It's an evolution internally to find what it is that I feel is me in this new skin called artist, this new genre called artist, and figuring out what it is that really brings me joy to see on the canvas, what it is that brings me um back to myself and that creativity.

SPEAKER_04 1:25

And today we are joined by Dr. Trisha Seymour. Welcome to the podcast. Would you mind telling our listeners a little bit about yourself?

Meet Dr. Trisha “Trisha” Seymour

SPEAKER_01 1:35

Yeah, sure. Um, most of my life I've been a psychotherapist and a holistic practitioner, mind, body, spirit. I think it's important that you include all of that when you're trying to uh be whole, right? When I'm trying to heal. And I just got into art uh full time this year, actually. And so I'm in in spite of being a little more advanced in age, I am considered an um emerging artist, which is kind of fun. Love to do that. I get to play.

SPEAKER_04 2:08

That's it sounds amazing. I I love that you have gotten to get to have a new beginning as an emerging artist. Uh we normally have uh some kind of an origin story that starts way back with how someone got into what it is that they did. Um is there anything like that for you? Any inklings way back when?

A Childhood Fueled By Possibility

SPEAKER_01 2:33

I probably all of us have that, right? Oh, and by the way, just call me Trisha. It's okay. Thank you. Um yeah, so um I was blessed with the family that I grew up in. They were hardworking middle class. Um mom stayed home when I was younger, but actually she was very much an entrepreneur. And so even though she stayed home with us, she actually uh went and got bookkeeping jobs in the 60s, and she would go to businesses and pick up their books and bring them home so she could be with us. So it's not that she didn't work, she worked all the time, but um they were really good at giving to the kids. That was myself and my sister. We're primarily there. I have uh uh two half uh siblings, but they didn't live with us. And so they made sure, my mother specifically, who was a very creative person, made sure that I had the chance to try anything I was interested in. So I got to play, let's see, I got to do uh the accordion, the violin, the piano, I mean, the gamut, the trumpet, the glockenspiel, the drums, and she took me to theater and she took me to the arts, and I got to see ballets, and I did ballet. I mean, I just it wasn't that I was always busy, and I do want to make a big point here. I believe now as an adult, my parents actually sacrificed a lot, very emotional, sacrificed a lot so I could have those experiences which molded me into who I am today, and so she took me to pottery classes. I mean, just an amazing experience that I was very blessed to have. Now, I will tell you that as a kid, I actually knew from about fourth grade that I wanted to go into psychology, and one of the things that I think is important is to I I love, I'm sorry, I'm getting all excited.

SPEAKER_03 4:47

You're doing great, Mrs. Green. Just keep talking. We're loving it. This is like gravy on a biscuit.

Defining Creativity Beyond The Canvas

SPEAKER_01 4:53

Thank you so much, Maddox. I love your definition of creativity. Creativity to me is anything that you make, whether you're a baker or a cook or you um my dad, who was an engineer, was creative because he was a uh uh mechanical engineer and he was able to take something from an architect and with his team create a building out of it, do drawings. I mean, yeah, maybe there were lines and something, you know, they had old boards, they didn't have you know computers, but he too was creative, he was able to build draw buildings out of his head. I just think that's amazing. So creativity to me is anything that you make, anything you create. So um when I was young, and when I was in uh, like I said, elementary school, I was very shy. Like, couldn't talk to a soul. I played by myself. My mother used to go, go outside and play with the neighbors. And I'm like, I just want to stay here in my bedroom and play with my talls. So um I went outside one time, and one of my adult neighbors was having a hard time with her marriage, her kids, her life. I really don't remember the specifics. But because I was so shy and quiet, I was a really good listener. And she looked at me and said, You are such a good listener, you should be a psychologist. And I went, a what? And I realized at that moment that was what I wanted to do with my life. So I wrote a paper in fourth grade on the difference between a psychologist, a psychiatrist, what was psychotherapy, and I stuck with that because I knew that was it. But I also knew that in doing that, I could touch into my intuition and to be able to understand what was happening in the other person. I know, Maddox, you've mentioned before, and I'm sure you too, Dwight, how sensitive you are. And you can feel the emotions of other people, you can sense what's going on, even if they don't say it. And I found myself in that space in fourth grade, being able to sense what was happening in other people's lives, children and adults, being able to know uh what to say or not say, or as I grew, able to know what questions to ask to elicit what they really were feeling that they might not even know.

SPEAKER_03 7:40

That that ability is definitely a double-edged sword.

SPEAKER_01 7:44

It is.

Shyness, Listening, And Calling

SPEAKER_03 7:45

It comes with a certain level of of challenge and and pain, and then it comes with certainly a level of being such a gift and such a a joy. I I I want to backtrack for just a minute, Tricia. Are your parents still living?

SPEAKER_01 8:01

Oh no. My father died a while back, and my mother died just a few years ago. She was 96 years old.

SPEAKER_03 8:08

Do you think that they were aware of the impact that all of the opportunities and the art and the getting to try things, do you think they really realized the impact that that would have on you long term? They intended well, but yeah, I just wonder sometimes because that generation wasn't particularly known for being a highly evolved or aware generation.

The Weight Of Words And “Spells”

SPEAKER_01 8:36

Right. I I think that for my uh father, it was more about um allowing my mother to do what she wanted. And I think for my mother, she had such low self-esteem. Um, she did not feel good about herself. My mother actually was very creative. She also um she wrote poems, she wrote short stories, she did art, she um uh oh, she put on plays and theater, and I got to do theater and stuff. She made the costumes and the makeup and she wrote the scripts and she directed all at our church, but still she had quite productive, huge productions. Matter of fact, at her funeral, they talked about her as being a director of huge productions at the church, and so I think she just wanted me to find what made me happy, and so I want to be clear. She did not make me do all those things. You know, I'm afraid sometimes parents today push their kids into oh, you have to play soccer, oh, you have to do this, oh, you have to do that. She didn't make me do any of that, neither of my parents did. They asked me, What would you like to try? What would you like to do? And and the theory was if you like it, keep doing it. If you're good at it, keep doing it. If you don't like it, stop and try something else. So the word failure was not in my home. And it wasn't because they pushed me to not fail, it was because they allowed me to fail and said, It's okay, try the next thing, which I think is really cool. And again, like you said, I my parents were baby boomers. I don't know. Uh my mother and dad grew up in the depression. I don't know any parents at that age that really did that, you know. So that's kind of cool. I they were definitely, and I'm I'm grateful for that. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 10:36

You know, when you spoke of the neighbor lady who told you you should be a therapist, we never know how the words we say to another can impact somebody so deeply. She said that off the cuff, not thinking about it. Right. And here you are all these years later, a a lifelong career doing exactly what she said.

SPEAKER_01 11:00

Oh, you should be uh I know, right. You never know how you impact another person, and so it's always important to keep that in mind when you're with others to be to be uplifting and positive and supportive, but even to children, you just don't know what you say and how it might affect them.

unknown 11:22

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 11:23

In both positive or negative, right?

SPEAKER_04 11:25

That's right. I there's uh I was reminded that there's a reason that we call call it spelling. And it's because there is there is a weight, there is a charge with the words that we use. And we need to be very careful with them.

SPEAKER_03 11:41

Yeah, we cast spells. That's that's I like that. Pretty clever, Mr. Dwight. So when she planted the seed, and all you could think about was being, you know, a therapist. Did some of the creative stuff kind of go by the wayside a little bit?

Play, Performance, And Introversion

Emotions, Music, And Meaning In Art

SPEAKER_01 11:59

Actually, no, because again, I was just a kid. So what's interesting is that um uh I had a best friend in elementary school, one, please hear that, right? Shy, introvert. And she uh, and we're still connected today, which is kind of cool. She and I would uh perform plays at school for kids. I could be in front of people on a stage and do a part because it wasn't me. And I know a lot of theater people say that, but I would literally in elementary school, we actually got a couple other friends together and we did the Addams Family. And I wrote the script. I helped with the costumes. My mother, I'm sure, helped too. And um, the teachers let us go around from classroom, it's like October. Teachers let us go around from classroom to classroom to do this, you know, little skit with my friends. So I was always still involved in the arts of some sort. In middle school, I was in singing, not my best time, but I took singing lessons and that's not my thing. But um, you know, I I did theater, I did art, I did creative endeavors, partly because as an introvert, it allowed me to be myself. One of the things as a I learned later in psychology was um the Myers Briggs. Do you know that the test? The Myers Briggs personality test. Yeah, yeah. So it defines introvert and extrovert really well. It says that an extrovert goes to a party and is loud, friendly, talking to everybody, and when they go home, they're jazzed. Right? They're like, I can't sleep, I'm so excited. An introvert who goes to the party may be able to hold the conversations and be outgoing and friendly, but when they go home, they are trained. They want to take a nap. So I learned how to be outgoing and friendly and hold conversations like this and and put myself out there. But I have to have my alone time, and my alone time allowed me to get into my art, whatever that was at the time, whether it was coloring in a coloring book or creating my own stuff. I still very much was involved with the arts of all kinds. I love music. Um, I don't play anything particular. That really wasn't my forte, in spite of trying all those things. It really was more um an appreciation for music and what music brings to our lives. Um an appreciation for art and what it brings to our lives. And and in both cases, the emotions that the art can uh elicit, and the emotions music elicits and theater and just all of that in a good book or a poem. I think I carried all because I got that so young, I carried that all through my life. I love seeing when people are successful because they created something. Other people are, you know, like, oh, I don't like that Jeff Bezos, or oh, I don't like that person because they have money, or I don't like I'm like, congratulations, way to go. You made something out of nothing. Oh my word, that's amazing. And so I think being able to be in that space makes a huge difference. And a lot of that comes from my mother and my childhood.

SPEAKER_04 15:38

I can see how there's that love of music has carried forward in all the things that you've done. I mean, the the beautiful piece behind you. That's the one that that was featured in Times Square.

SPEAKER_01 15:52

Yes, uh-huh. I it was on a built billboard right in Times Square, right down the street from the Disney off the Disney uh shop. So prime location. And it was a gallery in New York that put it up. I didn't put it up myself.

SPEAKER_04 16:08

Well, it's a beautiful testament to how there's such a blending of different textures and different colors and just different ways that you can have uh a chorus of of different energies fusing. And I I dare say that uh I can see the influence of all of the creative things that you got into before it.

SPEAKER_01 16:35

Thanks. Yes. Sometimes I think it's kind of a just mashed up mess, but then I look at it and go, oh, I really like that.

Times Square Moment And Mixed Media

SPEAKER_03 16:42

I think it's interesting how I I too am an emerging artist. And I always listen to artists talk about, you know, the painting that they're referring to and how they dug down into the depths of their soul and poured out on the canvas. And and I and I always giggle, you know, I just say, you know, no, for me, I'm I'm just a child smearing pretty colors on the surface. You know, there's none of that's present for me. But what I have discovered now after painting for a while, going back and sitting with and reflecting with my pieces, they tell a story about, they tell two stories. They tell a story about who I am overall, and then they tell a story about what was going on inside of me when I painted that piece. And I, you know, I'm delighted with the way that unfolded because if I thought if I'm gonna have to sit here and stew in some kind of feelings to put it out on the canvas, that just didn't appeal to me even a little bit. I I literally just want to have fun like a child. I just want to make something pretty and play. And and then to later discover that there I am. I mean, there I am. It told a whole story about me. It was just fascinating to me. Do you find that to be true when you look into that piece behind you?

Intuition Versus Planning In Abstract

SPEAKER_01 18:09

Um I think there are. So let me let me get my words together. I think there are two ways that abstract specifically artists work. Now, again, people who are doing portraits and things like that will have a different story. But when it comes to abstract art, I think sometimes it is what you said. They dig down, or it's emotions, or it's something from within, or it's part of their where they were at the moment. And I have some of that art, so I do understand completely where I am moving to. So again, realize, like you, I'm new at putting all this together. So I've done a lot of play. I love that. I love play. I've done a lot of play with my art. Some of it's just because I felt like doing it, right? It's just fun. Um, but I had somebody once make the comment that my art looks like it's received rather than directed.

SPEAKER_03 19:11

You channel it, in other words.

SPEAKER_01 19:13

Yes. And what I find is that um when I'm in the flow of source, spirit, God, whatever you want to call it, universe, when I'm in that flow of energy and I'm in a really centered, good space, I get flashes in my head. I attempt to put them on a canvas, I see new things to add. It just happens. I actually call myself an intuitive alchemist. Because alchemy, although we think of it about as gold, right? Alchemy is taking something and making it something else.

SPEAKER_03 19:53

Yes. Base metal and turning it into something precious.

Channeling And The Flow State

SPEAKER_01 19:57

Right. So an empty canvas and turning it into something that I love. And so um intuitive because it does just kind of show up. Now, I'm I may have the stencil or I may know what it is I needed to buy, or the spray paint, or the colors, but they too just kind of go, ooh, try this. Ooh, how about that? Oh, that would look good. Let's do that. It's really kind of that. play you were talking about. It's much more, yeah, much more just happens. It's more like I'm receiving what to put on the canvas rather than my brain thinking what should be on the canvas.

SPEAKER_03 20:38

I ride the fence. There are days when I'm just like it just flows out and I just let it be what it is. And then there are days where I'm like thinking I have to figure it out. And I I'm I just and I vacillate back and forth. And even though I know it's turns out so much better and it's so much more enjoyable when I just don't try to figure it out first. My mind, you know I was a career hairdresser and makeup artist for 40 years. And so I'm geared towards having an a an end result. And that's I I want to do it the opposite way now, but it's hard. But I love the way you you describe that. I'm a firm believer that through our our connection to the infinite we can channel all kinds of things.

Originality Over Mimicry

SPEAKER_01 21:27

Yeah um and I think that's how it works. I think when you're open to that that's exactly the way it takes place is that you're channeling, you're bringing in you're creating something that hasn't been there before. I see a lot of artists attempt to mimic another artist you know they want to be a a Pollock or they want to be a uh Kandinsky or whatever. And I just think why why not be a Trisha? Why not be a Maddox or a Dwight? We already have a Kandinsky. We don't need another one right and so the good and the bad the good is I feel good about my art. The bad is sometimes uh galleries and things are looking for something specific that fits their model or that they're used to seeing um I am not trained as an artist. I did not go to college to be an artist. I don't have a degree in art. I have lots of classes I've taken because I love to learn right online all kinds of things but I don't know the rule of thirds and the color wheel and how you blend and all that. I tried to learn some of that but in my mind I just do what shows up and that's how I've lived my life really and and done everything. Much like a hairdresser you have to know the skills right you have to know how to cut hair you have to know how to make layers you have to know how to do color. But when it actually think about it when it comes down to doing it it is an art.

SPEAKER_03 23:07

Oh yes absolutely because when I was doing makeup the face was my canvas.

Skill, Virtuosity, And “Getting It”

SPEAKER_01 23:13

Exactly it's actually an art. So I know that um I had a friend who was a musician percussion musician in a symphony in Minnesota. So what she made her living at was being a percussion musician in a symphony. She looked at me one day and she said you know what I am technically good. I've made my living in a symphony I can play anything but I am not a virtuoso and I said what and she said there are some people who just get it and I'm going to tell you in all the creative arts you have that right you have tons of actors and then you have those that get it you have tons of hairdressers and you have those that get it you have tons of artists and you have those that feel it musicians right and so I think that's the difference is when you are able to get yourself into that flow state you're more of a uh virtuoso than a technical whatever.

SPEAKER_03 24:29

Yes and that makes me want to back up for a second to what you said about not being trained as an artist not having an art degree my experience with all the people that Dwight and I interact with all the podcast guests all the people that we have been to gallery openings to see their art and listen to them speak we need a lot of artists and I would say there's probably not a big percentage of them that are classically trained most of us most of us I would say are probably like you and I we're emerging and we're self-taught.

Trained Versus Self-Taught Paths

SPEAKER_04 25:13

Mm-hmm and and I would dare say that even among those who were classically trained they got to have further awakenings. And they got to got to speak to a part of themselves that was a yearning to see what was beyond the rules what was beyond all those elements and no to what you were saying about there being those that can be technically proficient like your friend in Minnesota who's you know for all intents and purposes a professional musician. A a perfectionist who has been able to make a career but there would be someone that would be able to feel it that maybe never never had a formal class. Or I think of people that defy the imagination like Prince who was known for playing every single instrument and singing every track on some of his earlier albums and uh it would go on forever or um I had the good fortune of going to um St. Petersburg Florida and and going to the the Dali museum and being shocked that oh wait all of the the pieces that we know are attributed to him are just a fraction of what it was that was his range and he could pretty much do anything he put his mind to it was right it's mind numbing.

SPEAKER_03 26:47

When I was in high school I was in the choir and there was uh a fellow student my age a a black kid who had never had a piano lesson in his life did not read music and could beat those ivories in a way that you couldn't even imagine we recorded an album my senior year professionally recorded an album and we one of the songs we sang we did some classical stuff but one of the songs we sang was um strumin my pain strumming my pain I don't know you know what I'm talking about I can't think of the name of it and Killing Me Softly he played Killing Me Softly yes killing me softly he played the piano for that piece on the recording oh wow and it was absolutely stunning what he could do huh yeah uh there's pros and cons.

SPEAKER_01 27:45

Obviously I have doctorate degrees so education's important to me and I know that even in my hobbies or even in my art like I said I'll go watch I'll go to the university of YouTube I'll watch videos or I'll take classes by other artists that I like or like their style or whatever but I think the ability to think outside the box is what is what makes someone go the next step. I think too often education creates a box and people stay in it. And when you are able to even if you have the education if you're able to move beyond what you were taught I think that makes a difference and I agree and some people just have the the gene the knack the I don't know that they have that intuition that says I I know how to do that even though I've never studied music like you were just saying Maddox right exactly so this this begs a question because I I've experienced this myself I've known others that have you came into the world with the gift of being an amazing listener.

SPEAKER_03 29:00

Nobody needed to teach you how to do that. You didn't need any training you knew how to listen in a really very special way was there ever a time in your training your education where it felt like they were trying to teach you something that felt counter to what you just innately knew how to do it feel like okay if I listen to this it's gonna likely screw up what I already do so well. And did that ever present itself in any shape form or fashion?

The Counselor Who Said “You Can’t”

Discovering Dyslexia And New Tactics

Resilience, Rejection, And Reinvention

SPEAKER_01 29:33

I'm gonna take what you just asked and move it just a little bit if that's okay. Sure. To tell you a story that did affect me in a way that was very profound. So um again I I'm not dissing education I think education is very good. Yes but um as you just heard I knew you're gonna make me cry again is that your goal I think that's your goal um I mentioned sensitive um I knew I wanted to go into psychology and I had done enough research by the time I was in high school please realize I'm old so there were no computers so this all had to happen at libraries you know those things that we still have sort of um I knew what it took to be in the field of psychology. I knew you had to have a doctor degree I knew that I knew that was a lot of education but even in elementary school I was in the slow reader class I was in the slow math class I was not the AP advanced student. I was good to make B's and C's my parents were great with that they were just thrilled I was passing classes but I had to read things three and four times I would never read out loud in class that was awful in high school they do a lot of testing they never tested me for a disability they tested me for my intellect and what I could accomplish so they always kept telling me that um I needed these special classes because I would fail every big test they would give me so all of your even the SATs and ACTs later in life it was a struggle for me and I didn't do well. My high school guidance counselor because of some testing that had been done to see how how I was going to do um called me into his office take your time dear I hadn't planned on this part and he said what are your plans and I said well I gotta go to college right I I'm gonna be the psychotherapist I gotta go to college So he looked at me in all seriousness and he said you are not smart enough to go to college you will fail out your first semester This is a great counselor he said you need to lower your standards you need to look at trade school because you won't make it in college he says there's a lot of reading and you're not a good reader so give up that thought and let me give you some information about trade school obviously I was devastated and I went home to my mother and was sobbing and told her this my mother has also been my best cheerleader in my life she immediately ran over to the high school went to the principal informed him this was not okay I was not there so I don't know exactly what she said she told the guidance counselor he didn't get fired but it was definitely a turning moment for me and my mother looked at me and said those same words she had said before you go to college you do whatever it is you feel drawn to do if you fail out it just means it wasn't for you it's really not failure it's just an experience so I did go to college I had to get in as a as a I don't remember what they call it but where you are sort of on like probation a probationary student because I my test scores were so bad. And I struggled because I still had no idea why I was such a poor reader so I had to read things two and three times. If the tests were um on the lecture I always went to lectures everybody else is like I just skip the lecture and read the book I'm like if the like tests are on the lecture I'll pass because I became a very good auditory learner which then helped me later as a psychotherapist right so I became a I I had a mind like a trap. If you said it to me I remembered if I heard it in the lecture I got it if I had to read it I probably wouldn't it wasn't until so I did graduate not great grades um probably mostly C's and B's less I'd always been doing I did get into a master's program and my master's program I got into again as a probationary because my grades weren't that good and my test scores AC all those test scores for grad school were awful because I couldn't do it. I get too stressed I get too flustered I still am not good at those big standardized tests. I was in my master's degree so please hear not a kid anymore I met a young man in my master's degree who had been tested as a child for ADHD and dyslexia he explained to me what the dyslexia was I didn't have ADHD but he explained to me what dyslexia was and I realized that's what I had I am so grateful that they test kids young now because had they known that when I was in elementary school my life would have probably been different but the young man who I don't remember his name in uh grad school shared with me his techniques he had learned because he had been diagnosed as dyslexic and that made such a difference for me I aced as in A's through my master's I aced as in A's through both of my doctorates but I will tell you every time I walked across the stage I waived my diploma and really wanted to go back to the high school guidance counselor but what it did was it told me don't listen to other people do what your heart says to do go where your heart says to go and it will work out the way it's supposed to and that just that lesson stayed with me.

Building Businesses And Online Learning

SPEAKER_03 36:26

So I now as an adult thank that guidance counselor for having said I don't hold grudges I just thank him because he may help make me who I am today I will do whatever it takes I will think outside the box I my brain doesn't work like other people's and in doing that I've been extremely successful in my career and in my education as a serial entrepreneur because I got the lesson the hard way you you know you pushed through because you wanted to prove him wrong you want and it just as could have easily with another person landed where it knocked him down and they never got back up. Right. So he he was we we don't want to give him a free pass here. I get that you're grateful and I would be grateful too because it worked out for you but you have we have no idea how many other people he said something to didn't have such a lovely outcome and and who knows knows maybe maybe they would if if it had knocked you in the other direction you'd have ended up in trade school and at some point there would have been a moment when you would have discovered oh my God you know how interesting it is that the universe redirected me you'd have found something else that you would have absolutely loved and been absolutely fabulous at possibly yes I agree and I think that's part of it is to um allow allow the things to show up that need to show up for you definitely yeah yeah you never know I I hope that if by chance there is someone who's listening who's had a few hard knocks a few people in positions of authority who have punched them down that they can hear what you went through and appreciate that there's a light at the end of that tunnel no matter how long look at look at where you are now well I think the cool part is it set me up to be okay with rejection again not saying I love it at least no nobody does excuse me but it set me up to know who I am and what I want and where I'm going regardless of what the world says well and and talk about overcoming spells I mean for anyone that's just casually listening you you've got some stats to be proud of I mean last year was a good one for you and the prior as an artist definitely the other thing along that and I'll come back to that in just a moment but the I just wanted to say is that what I ended up doing because as a psychotherapist I was in private practice was being a serial entrepreneur and have been extremely successful.

Reframing Failure As Data

SPEAKER_01 39:43

My education my EDD my PhD is in counseling psychology my edd is in actually instructional uh technology which is how you make online classes and my husband and I started an online education business when nobody was doing online education and so we got a lot of you don't know what you're doing you don't have the right degree even though I had a PhD at that point you don't you don't this is what's this online stuff this isn't real is this real education right so I think when you've had struggles in your life whatever they are it makes you it can make you I agree with you Maddox it can make you more resilient To handle what comes later. My mother actually, I was much of a very much of an adult, and she looked at my husband and I one time and said, I don't understand how, with all the rejection you get, you still say stay so positive.

SPEAKER_03 40:44

Well, she's largely responsible for that. There's a pattern here. You know, if we look at how she raised you not to see it as failure, but to see it as a as a learning lesson, as an as an opportunity. And then the counselor in a really backhanded way reinforced that. Because you you just didn't see it as failure. You saw it as a learning experience. And where do I go from here? It was uh a uh what do you call it, uh, not a sounding board, but a springboard.

SPEAKER_01 41:22

Yes. It goes back to the question you asked earlier, Maddox, and that was did they know what they were doing? I'm gonna guess since you just said what you did and I said what I did, she had no idea what she was doing. My mother just did the best she could. But you're right, what she did was she gave me the foundation to say rejection or uh somebody telling me I'm crazy or I don't know what I'm doing or what you're doing is wrong. I just go, yeah, okay, and move on.

unknown 41:51

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 41:51

Because I know what I'm doing is right inside of me. It's what I've been told to do, guidance-wise, it's what I've been led to do. It is what is right for me.

Artist Goals: Identity And Play

SPEAKER_03 42:03

I uh Trisha, I want to put some emphasis on this for our listeners because this is huge. Would you say that again, even if you don't say it exactly the way you said it, say it a different way. But the the the piece uh about I can't even repeat it now. I'll just let you do it. What you just said, it's gold. I think our listeners really need to hear that again.

SPEAKER_01 42:30

It's not about I have to remember.

SPEAKER_03 42:34

Go ahead. It's not about failure.

SPEAKER_01 42:38

Well, it's not about what happened to you, it's about what you make of it, right? So um, as a psychotherapist, I dealt with people that had trauma in their life, massive trauma, um, and from childhood. And I saw those who were able to take that and go deep inside and heal that and move on and become tremendous in whatever they wanted to do. And I saw others, as we both we've all mentioned earlier in this podcast, who crumbled under it and couldn't move beyond. And I think it's important that you look at everything you've experienced as making you who you are today. So, someone who's had extreme problems or setbacks or traumas, it made you who you are today. And when you can see that and you can honor who you are today, it helps you in so many ways be the best person you can be.

SPEAKER_04 43:38

Yeah, we I think we can learn a lot from nature. There are so many examples of how when you just look at the the models that we have for life. There are turtles that uh are hatched from hundreds of eggs and they're abandoned by their parents, and they have to survival is is part of that project. It's the same thing when you when we're looking at when a when a butterfly is making that final transition, it's so important that they fight their way out of that cocoon because it's in hitting that resistance that they are going to be insured that they're going to be able to make a flight. Exactly.

The “What Would Happen If I” Prompt

SPEAKER_03 44:24

So, Trisha, you had a fabulous year last year. And what got you there, as you we've all heard this, what got you there won't got you here, won't get you there because you're an emerging artist. You have a whole new set of goals and a whole new set of aspirations. Who will you need to become to take it to that next level? Who will you need to become in here? Not the external stuff, but the internal stuff.

Presence Over Pressure

SPEAKER_01 44:59

I think that the biggest shift for me is similar to what you were saying with your um hairdressing. It's getting that mindset where it's okay to play, it's okay to um be creative, it's okay to not know what's next, uh, to try lots of different things. It puts you back as an emerging artist, it's put me back in the uh basics in terms of the art itself. The art itself, I've had to go back and go, huh. Well, I like that color. Well, I'd like that color. Well, that color's not my my palette. Um, I've tried different types of things. I started out doing more because it was my wheelhouse psychology. I started out doing more pictures that were a little more related to emotions. And then I went to, oh, I have a show that needs flowers, so I can now make some flowers. So I think it's it's an evolution internally to find what it is that I feel is me in this new skin called artist, this new genre called artist, and figuring out what it is that really brings me joy to see on the canvas, what it is that brings me um back to myself and that creativity. I have the entrepreneurial part, and that's part of why I was successful, I think, last year was I knew what to do as an entrepreneur, be in shows, get press, uh, be on podcasts, do stuff that needs to, you know, get my name out there, my art out there. But I'm still in that space of what is it that is me a hundred percent? What am I really intuitively bringing in? And being in that space is where I have to sit. As an entrepreneur, I'm used to go, go, go, do, do, do, have a schedule. I got this meeting, that meeting, I need to go contact this person. And so to sit back and to not feel that level of pressure related to my art, I think that's probably where I'm headed.

Switching Off The Left Brain

SPEAKER_03 47:18

You know, the I'm I have developed a little sentence prompt that I use to do exactly what you're saying right now. And that is when I sit down, I ask the question, wonder what would happen if I. If I, you know, doesn't matter what it is, what what the end of that sentence is, but wonder what would happen if I use this medium. Or what would happen if I mixed some glitter in my paint? Or because there's endless what ifs. As in as an artist, there is never any time when you will have explored and experimented with everything that could possibly be done with all of the things that are in front of you. So there's this never-ending what what what might happen if I I love that.

SPEAKER_01 48:17

That's exactly what I do. Yeah. Go ahead, go ahead.

SPEAKER_04 48:20

I love the way that you have expressed perfectly how with that entrepreneurial energy, it's a reflection of of what's demanded of us constantly. I mean, we are expected to just do and give and keep going. And uh it sounds like what you found in in your art uh is something that forces you uh to get quiet, go deep within, and uh uh be fully present with who it is that you are, discover yourself, and really lean into that. And it's I can't help but have this sense that the more that you're able to discover the depth of who you are, the more it's gonna take care of all of those things that bring the external rewards.

Fluid Art And Surrender

SPEAKER_01 49:14

I love that. That's that's exactly right. Um, I do meditate, I do sit quietly. Um I use music a lot of times to help with kind of centering. Um, and I think that makes a huge difference when I'm able to let go of that. We'll call it left brain. When I'm able to let go of that, is it right? Is it done? Is it not done? Right. And I more intuitively see what to do. And you're so so you're exactly right, Dwight. I think that's where I am and where I'm moving more to in my art.

SPEAKER_03 49:50

It's beautiful. What a treat this has been. I I just didn't know we were gonna get to go that deep, and how fabulous was that. I I just wanted to, I want to acknowledge you for just being so authentic and so vulnerable today. You know, it just opens I I that is a superpower, I think. It's certainly my superpower.

SPEAKER_04 50:17

And I I want to thank you in advance for the person that's listening to this now that needs to hear this, needs this validation. It's it's the kind of thing that makes up for the slights that come from people who should have known better that were in a position to lift them up that tore them down.

SPEAKER_02 50:41

Yeah.

Validation, Sales, And Critique

Making For Yourself First

SPEAKER_01 50:42

Well, and I think it comes back to yourself too, and especially as an adult, we can continue to blame other people for where we are or the hardships or what we've had to endure, or we can dig deep inside and go, I am a good person. I know inside of myself I have the ability to do whatever it is that I want to do. And really, the more wins you get, the more you believe that, right? The more in art, the more galleries that say yes, the more shows that happen, the more um things that take place. I will tell you one of the things that I did during right after COVID, it was still kind of COVID-y, um, was I started thinking I was ready to get because I wasn't in practice and business was online, so it wasn't a big deal. I had a lot more free time. And I said, I wonder what art medium I could look into that would move me from my left brain to my right brain. And and as a psychologist, I want to be clear, it's not that clear cut. Everybody is both left and right brained, even if you tend to lean one way or the other. And finding a good balance between both is really important. But I knew that my left brain was huge, having been that entrepreneur and going and doing all that, and I had, I'll say, neglected in some sense, but not really. Um, not encouraged as much of my right brain as I wanted to have that good balance. So I found fluid art. Fluid art is where you have zero control. You put paint on a canvas and you move the canvas around, or you use a blow dryer and move the can the art the move the uh paint around, and what you end up with in most cases has no similarity to what you thought you were gonna have. But for me, doing that allowed me to not only play and have fun, but truly just go, I have no idea what this is gonna look like. I'm just gonna get out of my way and find that good space of internal and spiritual connection and all of that. And it made a huge difference for me moving into that genre. I will say the other success I had was in the last couple years, um, because I did the fluid art, uh I sold a lot of that. Um, I actually sold over a hundred art original art pieces. And so that makes a difference too when people are buying your stuff and there's validation that you're on the right track and you're doing something that people like. Even if other people are like, oh, my five-year-old could do that. Like, great, give your five-year-old a brush, encourage him, please go for it, right? But I have to be okay knowing that some people look at my work and think, as with all abstract work, and think that it is childish. And I, like you, Maddox, want to say it's childlike, it's child play, it's something that brings joy. I want people to look at my work and yes, become uh contemplative and think about it, and because I do feel like I'm channeling it, but I want them to also just smile when they see my art. Like, wow, that looks cool, and then maybe go deeper, right? But I think that's real important.

SPEAKER_03 54:17

I I talked to somebody recently and I can't remember off the top of my head who it was, but they said when somebody said to them, My nine-year-old could do that, her response was, but he didn't.

Paintovers And Evolving Taste

SPEAKER_01 54:32

Yeah, no, I did. Right. I know, I know, and there are a lot of people uh that do that, especially on social media. You have a lot of the very famous people who are making lots of money in their art, and they have the you know, the dissers, the people who are uh trolling and just saying negative things about them. And you have to take it with a grain of salt because there's not I'm not for everybody. I know that. Yeah, I don't know about you guys, but I dated a lot before I got married, before I found my person, right? I dated a lot before I found my person. I'm not for everybody, I'm not for everybody, and my stuff is not for everybody, and so you gotta be okay with that.

SPEAKER_03 55:16

You do, I agree completely. What a great point in life and in art, you gotta be okay with that.

SPEAKER_01 55:26

Yeah, so um I just find that when I can move to that space of receiving, when I can move to that space of opening, that I personally love my own art even more. Whether anybody else thinks it's good, like you, uh, like you guys, I have a lot of my art around my house because I liked it so much. I might have put it in a show, but I'm like, I don't really want to sell that. I like that. I'm gonna keep that.

SPEAKER_03 56:01

One of the decisions that I made when I started painting was that uh my my goal was to create art that took my breath away. I didn't care if it took anybody else's breath away.

Maslow’s Capstone: Being Of Service

SPEAKER_01 56:14

Exactly. Exactly. And I think that's the key. Like I said, when I was coming into so again, I've played with art all along. When I came into 2025, I came in with the concept that I was gonna get a brush in my hand, I was gonna do more, and I was gonna, and I did things specifically for specific shows. I will tell you what's interesting is some of the pieces I made for a show that got in a show, I've painted over. I didn't like them. I brought it home after the show, it didn't sell. I brought it home after the show and I went, I didn't like that. And I literally painted over the canvas. So I have quite a few paintovers, like the masters. You know, they say if you go some of the masters from Brandt and things like that, you look underneath, they have paintovers. I'm like, yeah, I don't like it. It was in a show, that's nice, but I'm gonna paint over it. I'm gonna make something I like.

SPEAKER_04 57:06

Yes, yeah, yeah, that's that's a great data point.

SPEAKER_01 57:15

So it is a lot about um self self-insight. Um, in psychology, there's Maslow. Maslow's levels of hierarchy. Um, if your audience doesn't know that, they can look it up. But it goes from, you know, safety and money and security and all that, and at the top is self-actualization. What's interesting, and this is an interesting point, most people don't know, is that after Maslow's death, his widow found some of his writings. And in his writings, he said, I was wrong. There is another piece, a capstone, that goes on top of this pyramid of self of self-awareness and of how we grow and evolve.

SPEAKER_00 57:59

And he said the final piece is being of service. That makes sense. That's amazing.

SPEAKER_01 58:11

The final piece is the give back.

SPEAKER_02 58:14

Yeah.

Mentoring And Quiet Community

SPEAKER_01 58:15

So I know you guys talk a lot about community. Again, as more of an introvert, which a lot of artists are, I don't have a big community. I don't go out and party anymore. I don't go out and have brunch or lunch or dinner. I love doing that, but I really don't do it a lot. But what I do find is when I find another person, in this case, an artist, that I can lift up, I do that. So whether that's just telling them how much you appreciate their art or what you see in their art, um, I have a young lady who is um friended me through one of the organizations that we're involved with. And um her art is not mine and my art is not hers, but I can appreciate her talent. It's amazing. And so when I see a show that I think she'll go it well with, I text her. Hey, here's a show. Why don't you go apply for this? It may not even be a show I'm applying for, and it may be a show I applied for. So she's doing the same thing. You know, she asked me about how to improve her social media, I gave her some advice, all very natural conversation, all not being charged anything. Um, I've mentored a lot of people over my career in all my different uh endeavors, from I'm a supervisor in psychology or anything like that. But I just find that giving back with nothing expected coming to me just helps me be in such a nice space.

SPEAKER_03 59:56

And you have what's called a servant's heart.

SPEAKER_01 59:59

Yes.

SPEAKER_03 1:00:00

I have a servant's heart, and I've I've been aware of that. I don't think I was aware of it as a child, but it was present as a child. Sure. I can look back and see now as early as 13 people were coming to me, adults were coming to me to share their problems with me. When I was only thirteen years old.

SPEAKER_01 1:00:26

Right. And that that give back is part of what we have to get to, where it's not all about me.

SPEAKER_04 1:00:36

Right.

SPEAKER_01 1:00:37

How can I be of help?

Everyday Service, Tiny Interventions

SPEAKER_04 1:00:39

Yeah, it's telling that uh a lot of the the oldest traditions knew knew that early on as in the basis of of their teachings. Uh I I think that there's a great deal of rediscovering of it. I I remember that was one of the the big takeaways from uh Jay Shetty's Think Like a Monk. Um it's it's coming back uh to revisit us quite a bit, and I think that people need to hear that if you're feeling empty, the all the things Madison Avenue is trying to sell you aren't going to fill that hole. But you just need to give back.

Karma, Gratitude, And Closing Thanks

SPEAKER_01 1:01:20

Mm-hmm. Definitely. It makes a difference in life. And it doesn't have to be big. I think that's the thing that we miss. We're like, well, I don't have a lot of money, I can't donate, well, I don't have a lot of time, I can't volunteer. I was doing um corporate training and traveling all over the world, which was fun. Um, and I remember going to a counter, uh, a counter uh of a car car place, right? I was gonna go rent a car. And the young lady behind the counter was having a very hard time, nothing was working. The customer right before me was extremely rude. I mean, literally, she was just beside herself. She was having a hard time. There was nobody else at the counter, and there's a line, and she was freaking out. I got up to the counter and I looked at her and I said, You've got this. Take a deep breath, you're doing great. And she said, She started crying, and she said, I was about to give my notice when my shift was over because I didn't think I could do this. Thank you so much for saying that. I said, just breathe, just breathe. You're okay, you've got this, and she did that, and she smiled. And I don't know what happened to her, it's a chance pass in an airport, right? But if I see a bathroom at an airport or a uh restaurant that's really clean and the person's in there that's cleaning it, I tell them thank you. I mean, those little things, you never know how much difference you're gonna make in somebody's life, and that to me is being of service and having that servant mind all the time. It's not about a specific action that I donated so much or I did this or I volunteer or any of that. It's that mindset of giving back every day with everybody you meet, helping them have a better day. That's that servant mindset that I think is so important and helps you too.

SPEAKER_03 1:03:26

And yes, in turn, it comes back to you. So there's a lot of incentive, not because it's you get a return, but because it's not that. It's it just uh I'm a big believer in karma. What goes around comes around. What you put out into the world comes back to you.

SPEAKER_04 1:03:45

Yes, it does. Well, this has been a wonderful conversation. I'm so glad that we got to do this.

SPEAKER_01 1:03:52

Thank you. This has been great.

SPEAKER_03 1:03:55

It has been delightful. I so enjoyed this.

SPEAKER_01 1:04:00

Well, I appreciate you guys doing this podcast and allowing me to be on here. I think what you're doing is wonderful, and that just keep going. Uh, you're you're good, you're gonna make the difference in other people's lives by having on guests and by sharing what you do and who you are and what you have to offer to creatives in all industries and people in general.

SPEAKER_03 1:04:22

Thank you.

SPEAKER_01 1:04:23

So thank you.

SPEAKER_03 1:04:24

We appreciate that very much.