#099: What If You’ve Outgrown the Dream You’re Chasing With Penn Johnson

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Dwight: Welcome to another edition of Community and Becoming for the Love of Creatives.

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Dwight: I'm your Connections and Community Guy host, Dwight, joined by Connections and Community host, Maddox, and today we are joined by Penn Johnson.

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Dwight: Penn, could you share with our listeners a little bit about who you are and what you're about?

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Penn Johnson: Yeah, it's so interesting in this time. Thanks, Maddox and Dwight for having me.

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Penn Johnson: In this time of, disillusion and the self and identity.

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Penn Johnson: I'm in this constant refining, and as someone who has… I don't know if you guys fuck with astrology, but I have 5 Scorpio placements, and they're all, you know, Sun, Rising, Mercury, Mars, and Pluto, so it's, like, both of the ruling planets, and my Sun and my Rising, so it's just a lot of…

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Penn Johnson: Death and rebirth over and over again. And for the longest time, I would say that I was a I played folk medicine for the soul.

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Penn Johnson: That was the music that I was playing. And I was a gigging musician for many years, and I burnt out, and I was… I've been living on the road for as long as I can remember.

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Penn Johnson: Half of my adult life, pretty much.

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Penn Johnson: And somewhere along the way, I was inspired to fly to India.

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Penn Johnson: And when I was over there and throughout my travels, I discovered that what I was really here to do was to serve in small groups of people. Small groups and one-on-one help people move through

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Penn Johnson: Their shadows and trauma and the things that are holding them back from fully expressing themselves authentically and creatively in the world.

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Penn Johnson: And now, what I do is I host 7-day immersions in the jungle, the forest, the mountains.

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Penn Johnson: And help people come home to themselves, learn how to rest, learn how to be comfortable laying on logs, and swimming naked in rivers, and screaming into waterfalls, and doing things that society might deem strange.

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Penn Johnson: And really unlocking that in people I've seen releases their creative potential and their full expression and

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Penn Johnson: Allows them to move forward from this really authentic, beautiful, spacious, open place rather than this contractive sort of, restrictive.

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Penn Johnson: mindset that the… That our modern society pushes on so many people.

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Dwight: And as I hear that, that is so beautiful.

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Dwight: I mean, it sounds like you're truly free.

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Penn Johnson: I think… Freedom… Begins inside yourself in the sense that.

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Penn Johnson: My favorite thing about my life is that I've spent my years learning how to feel home everywhere.

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Penn Johnson: So whether I'm stranded in Indonesia without a phone or money, you know, for 72 hours, or I land in a new place.

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Penn Johnson: Don't know anybody, don't know where I'm going.

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Penn Johnson: I at least know that I can move from a grounded and regulated place rather than a place of like chaos and confusion and overwhelm.

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Penn Johnson: And I have developed the tools, or mostly songs, to sing myself home to the present moment.

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Maddox: That's beautiful. A minute ago, when you were describing the restrictive

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Maddox: my mind just kept, like, I kept hearing the words, panties in a wad, panties in a wad.

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Maddox: What made me think of that, but yeah, that that restrictive, yes.

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Maddox: You know.

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Penn Johnson: And.

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Maddox: Say that without any of us not knowing exactly what you're talking about.

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Penn Johnson: And it's interesting, right, the way that these adages and, illusions and, and, phrases.

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Penn Johnson: Can…

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Penn Johnson: We all know these things and it's like words are spells, you know, it's like you hear that over and over again, you, you believe that, you believe that.

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Penn Johnson: Mentality, rather than just… in the sense that, for example, My… of… In former partnerships, I have

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Penn Johnson: You know, before I had done a whole lot of the work that I've done now.

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Penn Johnson: I used to say, people say it all the time, like, you're crazy, you're nuts, like, what are you doing? And it's like, we

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Penn Johnson: We don't give people enough space for their expression.

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Penn Johnson: And we immediately shut them down. And with things like that, it's like, oh, don't get your panties in a bunch. It's like, that shuts down emotional openness.

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Penn Johnson: And then as soon as that sort of thing comes up, that person doesn't feel safe to express. So it's like, even in that way.

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Penn Johnson: We're…

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Penn Johnson: We're restricting and constricting through our words and through the things that we say every day. And I mean , think of how many times people have said that in the last week that you've heard of. These are adages and phrasings that we normalize.

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Penn Johnson: And then when we normalize these things, we allow them to perpetuate. And what I'm here to do really is to break that spell.

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Penn Johnson: And… and interrupt that pattern of, like, oh, going down this way, because someone will hear that, and they'll be like, oh, I'm not safe to express, I'm too much, I am blah blah blah blah blah, rather than being like, oh.

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Penn Johnson: This is a red flag. I need to redirect myself because that's not the path that I'm trying to go down and that's not the kind of people I want to surround myself with. So it's like

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Penn Johnson: It's just interesting how words are so powerful and I feel like the music that I share with people really

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Penn Johnson: Hammers that home.

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Penn Johnson: Because…

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Penn Johnson: People will say that I put to words the things that they've thought for years and years and years of their life but have never been able to name and once they can name it.

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Penn Johnson: I used the…

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Penn Johnson: the, metaphor of shining a flashlight in the dark in your room. When you hear some strange noise in the corner, you're like, holy that's either a cat or a demon coming out of a hole in a portal in this corner of my room. And you shine the light, and it's just a cat doing weird cat

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Penn Johnson: But your brain doesn't know what that thing is until it can associate it with that. So, when you hear a song that has a lyric that says something you've been thinking, you can immediately associate it with that, and you can move forward from that place, and you can be like, oh, it's just that again, it's just that pattern, we just need to go this way this time.

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Dwight: Yeah, I love that wisdom.

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Maddox: Music is very powerful.

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Penn Johnson: The words?

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Penn Johnson: Oh, music, music, yeah, I mean, it's

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Penn Johnson: It runs… it runs gatherings, it runs communities, it's… it's the center of everything, it's the universal language. I was in, I was in Indonesia.

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Penn Johnson: This was last year. I just did a year in Indonesia in 2025.

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Penn Johnson: And… I was in a village.

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Penn Johnson: So I had left this town, this tourist town.

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Penn Johnson: to go on this 18-day motorbike trip across this island called Flores in Indonesia. I rented this bike from this woman, and I was like, couldn't speak any English to a lot of people, you know, just Google Translate, you know, and…

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Penn Johnson: I was like, do people usually do this? Do people usually… she was like, no. Tourists? No. And I was like, perfect. I'm in my lane then. You know, and I set off on this experience, and it starts raining, and I pull off on the side of the road, and there's this…

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Penn Johnson: sort of, like, coffee shop sort of thing on the side of the road… on a mountain, on a cliff, like, overlooking this amazing vista. I'm just like, oh, just hang out here for a bit, you know, life could be worse.

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Penn Johnson: And, I sit down and I'm just like eating a banana or some shit.

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Penn Johnson: And…

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Penn Johnson: These two motorbikes come up, and these guys get off, they're four guys, and one of them sits right next to me, and I have my headphones in. I'm like, I'm upset at this point because my guitar has gotten wet, and I'm just like, you know, just like in the in the suck a little bit.

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Penn Johnson: And this guy starts talking to me, I'm like, holy he's speaking English. And then he's like… I was like, you can speak English? He was like, yeah, a little bit.

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Penn Johnson: And…

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Penn Johnson: He's like, where are you sleeping tonight? I was like, I don't fucking know. He was like, you're coming to my village, we're having a party. I was like, fuck yeah, we are. So I, like, follow… this dude gets on my motorbike, I just follow him an hour and a half to his village, and I show up, and there's, like.

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Penn Johnson: 70 aunties and uncles and little kids and just the whole… it's like the whole gang, right?

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Penn Johnson: And at 1 point, after we had eaten and had this ceremony.

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Penn Johnson: I was sitting there and he asked me to get out my guitar so I got on my guitar.

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Penn Johnson: And I started playing a song.

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Penn Johnson: And…

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Penn Johnson: A bunch of them are like live streaming it on Facebook. They love live streaming things on Facebook and TikTok and all that stuff, and I'm singing this song in English and none of these people speak English.

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Penn Johnson: And I'm saying, I need some help. It's a song that I wrote that's, it's called Higher Self. And I'm saying this, and they're singing it with me.

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Penn Johnson: And they don't even know that they're casting that spell of, like, giving permission to ask for help.

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Penn Johnson: And then later on, I was, like, invited to speak at this school, and I was, like, one of two white people who had ever been there. It was… and I showed up, like, barefoot with, like, a massive beard and a poncho, eating a banana and talking about how…

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Penn Johnson: you know, what I do in life, and how I travel, and how I live, and just, like, blowing these 15-year-olds' minds just out of the water, you know? And it was just…

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Penn Johnson: The but the it all comes back to the music because if it weren't for music, so many of these experiences would have never happened. And if it weren't for

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Penn Johnson: Me, originally, having the experience of

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Penn Johnson: accepting the invitation to take a beginner guitar class after I had taken guitar lessons and sort of given up.

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Penn Johnson: If I hadn't accepted that invitation, I don't think I'd be here today.

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Dwight: Wow, that's powerful.

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Dwight: It sounds like there was… a pen before.

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Dwight: Like, you've… you've definitely had a rebirth. I'm curious if you can revisit some of those early…

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Dwight: earlier experiences, I mean, what was life like before that trip to

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Dwight: where you were, stranded in… was it India or Indonesia?

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Penn Johnson: Indonesia.

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Dwight: Okay.

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Penn Johnson: Hmm.

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Penn Johnson: So… Yeah, for a long time… well, I basically, I graduated, I, let's see where we can start.

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Penn Johnson: My senior year of high school.

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Penn Johnson: I told my teacher I wanted to write a novel.

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Penn Johnson: And she was like.

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Penn Johnson: Okay, you know, I'm taking this creative English class and I was super into it and I

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Penn Johnson: Began writing this novel.

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Penn Johnson: And… At our awards ceremony, the last

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Penn Johnson: Few days of high school or whatever, she, she stood up in front of all the people and was like.

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Penn Johnson: You know, I hear a lot of people say they're gonna write a novel or write a, you know, something and

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Penn Johnson: This, this student is really doing that, you know, and it's, it's really powerful and it's amazing and the guy next to me is like, man, this guy sounds nuts and I'm like, she's talking about me, bro like, he doesn't know and then I, I like, stand up and like, accept this.

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Penn Johnson: Award from her or something, and

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Penn Johnson: So I guess, I mean to say I started as a writer.

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Dwight: Yeah.

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Penn Johnson: And… I loved fiction, because I could create realities.

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Penn Johnson: And…

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Penn Johnson: Somewhere along the way, I mean, I did finish that novel and I've since written a couple other ones, none of them have been.

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Penn Johnson: published, just mostly because I'm Hoarding them away from the world for the time being, but

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Penn Johnson: I eventually started writing a lot of nonfiction, reflections of what was happening in my life, and that was sort of in college when I was…

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Penn Johnson: Drinking a lot, smoking a lot of cannabis.

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Penn Johnson: And I no longer actually stopped drinking in 2017. And I took a whole year off of cannabis in 2024. And I haven't really, I smoked, I think the last time I.

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Penn Johnson: Smoked cannabis was in.

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Penn Johnson: Thailand, which I would not recommend if you're gonna…

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Penn Johnson: Smoking cannabis is really intense in Thailand. They have very strong medicine there. That was the last time was in October. So I've been really mostly sober.

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Penn Johnson: Since that time, but when I was, it's sort of, I look at that.

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Penn Johnson: Medicine, if we can call alcohol a medicine, even in some capacity, for learning how to

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Penn Johnson: Speak uninhibitedly, without… without habitian.

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Penn Johnson: With no inhibition.

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Penn Johnson: Words are strange. I often say I'm an English major, so I can make up words, but

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Penn Johnson: Sometimes, sometimes they don't land.

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Dwight: So…

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Penn Johnson: I started writing, fiction stuff, and then I moved on to nonfiction, and these reflections were just things that I had seen or witnessed, and sometimes they would break off into the realm of fiction, and it was kind of hard to tell for some people when I was

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Penn Johnson: When I was, when something was real and when it wasn't until something came up, it was like, okay. Clearly, he's, like, not talking about real life or this reality at least.

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Penn Johnson: And… so that was…

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Penn Johnson: That was the beginning, and then I graduated college with a degree in creative writing and environmental studies, and I moved to Northeast Pennsylvania to sit with

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Penn Johnson: And work with this non-profit that had been opposing shale gas fracking. And…

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Penn Johnson: I didn't know anything other than, like, there's a place to stay and food, and I was like… my friend called me, he was like, I don't know if there's… there's money in it, and I was like, beats being at my fucking parents' house, I'm out, you know? And, like, the next day, I just, like, drove to Pennsylvania from Massachusetts, and got there, and was just…

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Penn Johnson: Heartbroken.

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Penn Johnson: these people…

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Penn Johnson: We're just lied to in the biggest, most deceiving way, and the only thing that I could do.

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Penn Johnson: In addition to Drinking a lot of cheap beer.

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Penn Johnson: Was playing my guitar.

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Penn Johnson: I would sit in this room, in this attic.

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Penn Johnson: Above the house that I was in.

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Penn Johnson: for…

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Penn Johnson: 10 hours a day and just sing songs and just share and just practice and practice and practice and just refine and refine and refine and throw I probably have

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Penn Johnson: I usually say that I've thrown out more… I've thrown out or burned more writings than I've kept.

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Penn Johnson: And I feel like any Any writer worth their Words.

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Penn Johnson: Would say the same, in the sense that…

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Penn Johnson: There's so much evolution in writing.

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Penn Johnson: And when I look at some of those old writings, it is, it's like a former identity because that person.

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Penn Johnson: Those beliefs still exist, but they're so much quieter.

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Penn Johnson: And I know now that I know when to let us, I know when to put a story down.

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Penn Johnson: I know when to be like, this has served me for the time that it was here and the time that I needed it, and now I can I can lay it down? Whether and that's whether that's a relationship or a story I have about myself or a story I have about someone else or a story about I have about society or the way things work in the world.

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Penn Johnson: And that became my meditation.

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Penn Johnson: And it was the only thing that I could, that was really keeping me from.

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Penn Johnson: ending it, you know? Many times. And I started hanging out with this woman who was a bit older than me, probably about a decade older than me, who I showed up to this gig, and she's wearing these, like, you know.

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Penn Johnson: super sexy cowboy boots and, like, cowboy hat, and, like, she's got legs for days, and I'm just like, who is this woman? And I hear her sing, and I was like, wow, I need to spend time with this person.

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Penn Johnson: So she had this nice house on the on the lake that we would sit and just, like, she had this dock that we would float out in the middle of the lake and just play songs and have the picnics. And she introduced me to this guy, Todd Snyder's music, and he's sort of an infamous folk singer.

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Penn Johnson: And who recently passed, actually, unfortunately. And…

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Penn Johnson: She was like, yeah, we're gonna go… we're gonna drive two and a half hours to go see Todd, he's playing in Sellersville, and I was like, I've never… this blew my mind. I was like, we're gonna drive two and a half hours to a concert? Why? That's insane.

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Penn Johnson: this is me speaking, you know, now sometimes I'll drive 10 hours just to get… I used to drive, like, 10 hours to get away from my own thoughts, you know, so… But at this time, this was very novel to me. So we go, and we see this guy, and he's on stage, and he's just singing songs and telling stories, and I was like, you can do this and get paid? Fuck me!

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Penn Johnson: I don't want to do whatever the fuck, I'm losing my shit where I'm at, I need to do what this guy's doing, so

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Penn Johnson: We started listening to a lot more folk music. She introduced me to Townes Van Zandt and Blaze Foley and Langhorne Slim and all these.

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Penn Johnson: different types of… old Texas country and current, sort of, nashville…

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Penn Johnson: Finger-picking people who were telling stories, doing the same kind of thing as Todd.

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Dwight: Yeah.

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Penn Johnson: And I was just like, this is what I wanna do. So I was just like, hit the road doing that.

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Penn Johnson: And I was playing at colleges for a bit for their environmental groups because they had crazy budgets that if they didn't spend, they wouldn't get it back. So I was playing at colleges and hanging out. So I basically graduated college and then went like back to college again, started like going to parties again and having crazy experiences and connecting with a bunch of people and yeah.

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Penn Johnson: And that was… Led me to record my 1st record and so.

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Penn Johnson: That life, kind of, Halted.

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Penn Johnson: Last year when I went to India, I

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Penn Johnson: I'd actually been talking with Todd's tour manager for a bit, Brian, who's still a good friend of mine to this day, and he had been talking about

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Penn Johnson: Putting me on their label.

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Penn Johnson: He said Todd wanted to work with some younger artists. I was like, whole this is, like, my entire this is the guy this is the reason I started doing this. You know? This is this is huge.

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Penn Johnson: And…

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Penn Johnson: he just didn't get back to me in time, and I ended up recording this whole record, and he loved it, but… it just… timing wasn't right. I blew a bunch of money, like, you know, all the money I had in my bank account, I was like, alright, I'll just, like…

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Penn Johnson: Spend this money and record this record and

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Penn Johnson: It didn't really take off in the sense that I thought it would.

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Penn Johnson: But…

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Penn Johnson: I would play on the street, I would busk on the street, and sell CDs. Old school, you know, just, like, hand-written Sharpie CDs that I'd burn with a little CD burner, and…

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Penn Johnson: I sold, like.

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Penn Johnson: like 2,000 CDs or some crazy shit, you know, in that amount of… and I get paid for traveling for a bit, and I'd always sort of been doing that, but it was hitting really hard as the collective was catching up to the things that… because I would play for… a long time ago, I would play on the street for…

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Penn Johnson: You know, 2 hours.

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Penn Johnson: Same sort of mute, same kind of song, same.

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Penn Johnson: you know, amplified. I'm not talking just, like, me with no speaker. Like, amplified music, and people would just walk right by. They just would not… they couldn't hear. It was like I was transmitting at this frequency, and they were on this other frequency. That was just not aligning.

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Penn Johnson: And… When I started… I guess, promoting this new record.

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Penn Johnson: On the street.

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Penn Johnson: people were just, like, gravitating towards it. It was insane, you know? So I made back a little bit of money, and I had flown to Hawaii, and a partnership I was in sort of fell apart, and…

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Penn Johnson: I was out of money at that point.

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Penn Johnson: Pretty much for the most part and I was like, what, like, what's next and this buddy of mine had been talking about this Kumbh Mela.

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Penn Johnson: Which, this was, like, the 12th year of the 12th year of this massive spiritual gathering in India.

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Penn Johnson: And so it's, like, 144th year, biggest spiritual event of our lifetime. There was between 400 and 660 million people who attended.

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Penn Johnson: And… I was talking to him on the phone, I was in my buddy's, yard.

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Penn Johnson: And I was talking to him on the phone and he was like, it's the place where the 3 rivers meet and this shooting star went across the sky.

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Dwight: And I was like.

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Penn Johnson: I'm booking a flight to India. So I booked this flight to India and left, like, left the island the next day, flew to Seattle, to my former partner's house, to my van, which was still parked in her driveway.

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Penn Johnson: Got some stuff, bought a new guitar, and then just sent it one way to India and then from that moment, I was like, something, something's different this is, this isn't just about music, this is about

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Penn Johnson: the next version of who I'm going to become.

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Maddox: So, I have a question, Penn, and it's kind of… my question's kind of been unfolding as you've talked.

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Maddox: Because we know that you experienced, at some point, extreme burnout from all of the playing, all of the music, and the gigs, and the playing, and the travel on the tours, and all that. Yes. And then there was this shift.

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Maddox: Did… is that… happened when you went to India? Is that when the shift began to culminate?

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Penn Johnson: I think, The shift has been occurring since I've been doing this. It became clearer.

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Penn Johnson: When I was in Thailand.

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Penn Johnson: And I realized that.

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Penn Johnson: music wasn't the only thing that I was here to do. I wasn't here to be… I wasn't put on this earth to be a famous musician. I've actually already lived that life, and I've seen that in medicine experiences.

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Penn Johnson: And… I don't… I was like.

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Penn Johnson: I'm not necessarily here for the big crowds. I've felt

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Penn Johnson: just as whole and full and seen and living in my purpose when I'm playing for one person or a small group of people who are actively listening and receiving what's coming through.

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Penn Johnson: And… the burnout… Was the misalignment of trying to live a purpose that wasn't mine anymore.

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Penn Johnson: A.

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Penn Johnson: persona, that… had to… Release the idea of fame and notoriety and

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Penn Johnson: all of the things that come with that, which likely would have killed me. I have quite an addictive personality. And if fame had ever come at some point to the point where…

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Penn Johnson: Things were really, really taking off in a big way. I don't think we would be having this conversation right now.

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Penn Johnson: Based on where I was at in my journey. That's a pretty…

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Maddox: Pretty powerful awareness right there.

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Penn Johnson: Mmm.

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Maddox: you're.

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Penn Johnson: And.

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Maddox: About the becoming process you're describing.

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Maddox: Realizing something that you thought was who you were, and what your life was going to be about, and then realizing not so much.

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Maddox: So, was there… was there a moment of clarity when you… when you had this vision or this goal of what… what you…

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Maddox: we're going to become? Or is… are you still in the midst of this unfolding process? It's different for every person.

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Penn Johnson: Yeah, that's such an interesting question. I feel… Are we ever really done?

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Penn Johnson: Becoming, unraveling, so to speak.

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Maddox: Bye.

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Penn Johnson: I feel that… For me…

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Penn Johnson: When I had this moment of realization in this hotel room in Thailand, my buddy had dengue fever, and I was like running out of cash, and I was like, I don't know what the fuck is gonna be next, but

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Penn Johnson: You know, I gotta figure this out. I gotta figure out how I can earn a living and and continue to travel because that's all I wanted to do.

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Penn Johnson: And I was, I was sitting with this and I came up with this idea of

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Penn Johnson: A way to hold space for people and their pro- it's something I've been doing my entire life.

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Penn Johnson: But I didn't know I could earn money from it. I thought I was just supposed to.

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Penn Johnson: Be of service for free forever, which in a perfect world I would love to do.

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Penn Johnson: And…

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Penn Johnson: Because for the longest time, people would say ridiculously crazy things. They'd be like, you helped me heal my back pain, or you helped me move through a partnership that took me… that I got out of 10 years ago, or you helped me grieve the death of my brother, or you helped me…

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Penn Johnson: You know, one time I played an open mic. I played one or two songs. Some guy came up to me or messaged me the next day and was like, You made me pick up my guitar for the first time in 10 years and write a song.

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Penn Johnson: And that's worth so much more than money.

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Penn Johnson: To hear that my creative process can inspire someone and pull them out.

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Penn Johnson: Of burnout, of the depths, and pull them back in toward themselves.

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Penn Johnson: And see in me something they want to see in themselves, and go for it.

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Penn Johnson: That's priceless.

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Dwight: I can't help but hear how similar to when you were playing with the speaker and no one was there to to hear it.

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Dwight: You had the signals that were always there showing you a way, but…

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Penn Johnson: weren't.

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Dwight: Ready to act on it until you are ready.

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Penn Johnson: Yeah, and I think… So, so many people, I've seen so many people.

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Penn Johnson: chase.

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Penn Johnson: Fame. Chase.

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Penn Johnson: connection, chase relationships, and as someone who chased for a long time and realized that THAT was what was burning me out, not the journey, because the journey isn't meant to

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Penn Johnson: It's meant to break us down, but it's not meant to destroy us.

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Penn Johnson: And if something is, it's like I mentioned before, when something's out of alignment, it's going to become really clear really quick.

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Dwight: you.

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Penn Johnson: And a lot of people miss those signs.

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Penn Johnson: that they are… Moving toward a destiny that is not necessarily theirs.

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Penn Johnson: And that's, that's sort of what I realized was.

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Penn Johnson: I was seeing all of these people.

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Penn Johnson: Doing what I wanted to do.

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Penn Johnson: and thinking, We're projecting that onto my path.

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Penn Johnson: when… That's not actually who I'm here to be.

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Penn Johnson: And that was causing stress and burnout and confusion and being like, why isn't this working? Why isn't blah blah blah? And then as soon as I let go of that identity and began sharing more about just getting people outside and getting people to relax and

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Penn Johnson: Go visit places in nature, just stand barefoot in the grass, or…

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Penn Johnson: Connect deeper with themselves and sit with the parts of themselves that they

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Penn Johnson: have been avoiding their entire lives, because it's causing all of these diagnoses that we have, it's causing all of these neurodegenerative diseases, it's causing all of this autoimmune disease. The trauma is the root of all of this. And by attacking these symptoms with

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Penn Johnson: pharmaceuticals with you know, just bypassing and

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Penn Johnson: Sort of taking the best of the shadow work, the play and the creation, all of that stuff, but not sitting with the deeper stuff.

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Penn Johnson: It's just allowing it to build and at a certain point you get to a breaking point and that's when I feel a lot of people really need this work is when they're like, I've taken myself as far as I can go.

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Penn Johnson: There are things that I haven't seen or don't, or don't remember.

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Penn Johnson: And that's usually when I appear in people's lives.

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Maddox: You said something a minute ago about alignment.

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Maddox: And… What came to my mind was…

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Maddox: I think there's a definite segment, and maybe a large segment of the overall population.

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Maddox: That doesn't know what that is.

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Maddox: That doesn't understand alignment.

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Maddox: And…

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Penn Johnson: and.

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Maddox: How do they know when they're out of alignment if they don't know when they're in alignment?

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Penn Johnson: Yeah, that's… that's a very interesting question.

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Penn Johnson: learning… how to… have discernment.

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Penn Johnson: And learning what your intuitive senses are.

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Penn Johnson: Oftentimes, That's a big part of the work.

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Penn Johnson: And… People who have been exposed to frequencies of…

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Penn Johnson: Metropolis and cities and fluorescent lights and all of these dysregulating.

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Penn Johnson: Occurrences and foods and, chemicals in makeup and all of these toxic things that we're putting on our bodies and in our, and in our

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Penn Johnson: Stomachs and our guts, and… that…

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Penn Johnson: I would say the first step is clearing all of it.

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Penn Johnson: Reset.

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Penn Johnson: And…

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Penn Johnson: Whether that's… usually through the gut, because I actually filmed this video the other day that was interesting, because…

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Penn Johnson: I heard about this parasite that

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Penn Johnson: Matt Chasansky, will take over the brain of this animal, of this insect, and in order to reproduce, the parasite needs to… needs the water.

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Penn Johnson: But the insect, if it goes in the water, will die, so this parasite takes over the brain of the insect and

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Penn Johnson: Suicides it into the water so that it can recreate.

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Penn Johnson: And… When I heard that, I was like, well…

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Penn Johnson: When you mention to someone something about food, that's a big topic for people. If you mention something about food and the way that food is treating their body.

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Penn Johnson: It's almost like something else in them gets mad.

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Penn Johnson: It's not even them.

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Penn Johnson: And it's the microbiome of the things inside them that are keeping those parasites alive.

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Penn Johnson: Because they are taking over the brain of that person and they are.

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Penn Johnson: Literally speaking for that person. So, a lot of times when it's like, listen to your gut, a lot of people, if they haven't cleared their gut, they're not going to know.

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Penn Johnson: When they're in alignment or what is intuitive, so that's the first thing that I would say, and that starts with

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Penn Johnson: an elimination diet, right? Eating really simple foods and finding out First of all, eliminating sugar.

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Penn Johnson: We should, no one, I don't, I don't believe anybody should be eating.

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Penn Johnson: Processed sugar at all. I haven't had processed food in, 12 years. Same with fast food. I haven't had anything fried in almost a decade.

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Penn Johnson: And…

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Penn Johnson: I've felt that's like number one for skin health, for gut health, for overall well-being, for anxiety and depression. Cleaning out your gut is really the first step in recognizing what is in alignment for you.

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Penn Johnson: And once that step is complete, it's sitting with these parts of ourselves that we've been holding… holding onto for so long that we haven't been able to see.

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Penn Johnson: And when the shadow can be seen, a lot of the times, these things that come up for us.

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Penn Johnson: Are.

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Penn Johnson: We see in others something that we don't want to see in ourselves.

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Penn Johnson: And that's when we're like, oh, that person is a whatever. We create these stories.

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Penn Johnson: When a lot of the time those stories are just reflections that were.

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Penn Johnson: afraid of in ourselves.

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Penn Johnson: And… After cleansing the gut and moving through that reset.

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Penn Johnson: baseline learning

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Penn Johnson: Our stories, and our patterns, and our core wounds, and the things about us that we're uncomfortable with, and sitting with those things, and giving them space.

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Penn Johnson: And seeing them and saying, I see you, Shadow. I understand that this is a part of me that I'm afraid of. Why am I afraid of that? What am I running from?

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Penn Johnson: What am I hiding from?

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Penn Johnson: What am I… Choosing not to see because it would.

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Penn Johnson: Change something about me.

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Penn Johnson: When we believe these stories for so long, we

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Penn Johnson: We begin to think that's the only story that there is to tell, and it doesn't allow us to see outside of the scope that we're… these sensory perceptive gates have us in, this narrow-minded view of life.

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Penn Johnson: And we don't even recognize

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Penn Johnson: And this ties into creativity, because it's like, we don't recognize how the sun hits a leaf, or how…

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Penn Johnson: How, an insect crawls across a log or how.

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Penn Johnson: A shadow appears on a mountain face, or anything…

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Penn Johnson: In nature that's beyond just, oh, a plant, oh, the sun, oh, a cloud, we forget.

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Penn Johnson: Those parts of ourself.

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Penn Johnson: And we don't… when we forget those parts of ourselves, we're doing ourselves a disservice, because there's untapped creative potential in there, and when that gets stifled.

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Penn Johnson: That can create…

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Penn Johnson: Pain and anger and sadness and depression and anxiety and all of these, the myriad of other.

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Penn Johnson: diagnoses that we have in Western society.

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Penn Johnson: And… When we're able to simply see Those things in ourselves, and… realize that

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Penn Johnson: We are a part of that story, that we created this, so that we could move beyond it in a creative way that inspires other people to do the same.

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Penn Johnson: And we're the only ones who can do that. No one else has, can, can serve that path.

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Penn Johnson: has that medicine. We all have a medicine, a unique gift or talent. Multiple, oftentimes.

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Penn Johnson: that…

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Penn Johnson: when they go untapped, when that potential goes untapped, and we're stuck in a 9-to-5 of doing something that doesn't fucking need to be done, you know, or something that we could give to, you know, AI or something else, something else could be doing that for us, so that we can spend more time

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Penn Johnson: Doing the things that we love and the things that bring us joy.

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Penn Johnson: Or eliminate that thing entirely because who the needs most of the things that we have in society realistically,

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Penn Johnson: Then that medicine is able to be seen by the world and

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Penn Johnson: Then we begin to heal the collective on a really, really deep and powerful level.

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Dwight: Well, Penn, I hear what you're saying, and I think that there's a strong basis for… for getting

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Dwight: For arriving at that truth, but I think a lot of people.

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Dwight: Might not be willing to hear it, because…

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Penn Johnson: they.

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Dwight: take comfort in all of the things that keep them trapped.

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Dwight: But I would like to offer a perspective for any listeners that are Really, turning themselves off to…

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Dwight: These… these hard truths that you're sharing.

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Dwight: An example of a parasite that can Cause human behavior to change.

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Dwight: It is very well documented, and it's actually the reason that women are discouraged from cleaning litter boxes.

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Dwight: And that is,

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Penn Johnson: Wow.

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Dwight: Toxoplasmosis.

345
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Dwight: There's a parasite whose preferred host is cats.

346
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Dwight: And it's perpetuated through cat litter, but when it infects a human host, it causes documented marked changes in behavior.

347
00:38:09.570 --> 00:38:16.619
Dwight: It makes humans… More neurotic, a little bit more.

348
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Dwight: It causes them to obsess over things that they normally wouldn't.

349
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Dwight: And it makes them obsessed about cat grooming because.

350
00:38:29.530 --> 00:38:30.380
Dwight: Somehow.

351
00:38:30.380 --> 00:38:31.100
Penn Johnson: Wow.

352
00:38:31.270 --> 00:38:38.599
Dwight: It's figured out that the way to make it to more hosts is to have people handling

353
00:38:39.020 --> 00:38:41.119
Dwight: Cat waste.

354
00:38:42.480 --> 00:38:43.330
Penn Johnson: Wow.

355
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Penn Johnson: It's interesting, Dwight, that you say that because I often say

356
00:38:49.170 --> 00:38:53.009
Penn Johnson: I have this business mentor of mine who's also a really good friend, he's like

357
00:38:53.280 --> 00:38:59.159
Penn Johnson: He's like, bro, sometimes you have to, like, share the science. And I'm like, dude, I don't know the science.

358
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Dwight: the.

359
00:38:59.650 --> 00:39:10.030
Penn Johnson: I just feel the intuitive sense of, like, this is a thing, you know? And then someone's like, oh, yeah. That's, like, a documented thing that's been happening for hundreds of and you're just like, of course it is.

360
00:39:10.630 --> 00:39:11.090
Dwight: you.

361
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Penn Johnson: I think the interesting thing about,

362
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Penn Johnson: People being shut off to this way of thinking.

363
00:39:17.420 --> 00:39:20.209
Penn Johnson: Is that they're shut off to parts of themselves.

364
00:39:20.210 --> 00:39:21.010
Dwight: Yes.

365
00:39:21.210 --> 00:39:21.960
Penn Johnson: Because

366
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Penn Johnson: Everything that someone wants, everything that someone desires, every piece of life that someone wants to live is on the other side of their fear.

367
00:39:32.480 --> 00:39:35.760
Penn Johnson: And there is going to be discomfort.

368
00:39:36.100 --> 00:39:40.599
Penn Johnson: In, in this work or any, any, any shadow work, any sort of.

369
00:39:40.710 --> 00:39:55.210
Penn Johnson: Forward movement in life, there's gonna be discomfort. You don't hear a success story of someone just starting off and crushing it. And if you do, oftentimes they get to a point where they either end it or they are not able to handle whatever it is and backslide or whatever, right?

370
00:39:55.250 --> 00:40:09.520
Penn Johnson: And the interesting thing about, it's like, for me, I've been walking barefoot on the earth for the better part, I mean, exclusively for the, for the last 390 days when I was in, in, in.

371
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Penn Johnson: Asia and beyond into Central America, I was barefoot for 390 days. Straight. Did not wear shoes. Once. And for the last 14 years, 13 years I've been on the road, maybe the last 10 more exclusively, I've been

372
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Penn Johnson: pretty much barefoot.

373
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Penn Johnson: And… One of the things that I feel that has allowed me to do is.

374
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Penn Johnson: Hear and listen to the earth in a deep way that'll, that.

375
00:40:34.430 --> 00:40:38.060
Penn Johnson: Strikes a lot of people as possibly psychotic.

376
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Penn Johnson: Or, insane.

377
00:40:40.460 --> 00:40:48.319
Penn Johnson: Because the perceptory gates that they have are so narrow-minded that they couldn't possibly believe that a plant.

378
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Penn Johnson: Could sing.

379
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Penn Johnson: 2.

380
00:40:50.410 --> 00:40:50.940
Dwight: you.

381
00:40:51.230 --> 00:40:54.940
Penn Johnson: To someone, but interestingly, there is a

382
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Penn Johnson: story in the Amazon of this medicine combo. If you've heard of combo, it's frog medicine. It's taken from.

383
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Penn Johnson: It's taken in a pretty, it can be a bit controversial way, but the way that the ayahuasqueros, the way that this village found out about this medicine was that the entire village was sick, right?

384
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Penn Johnson: And the ayahuascaras drank ayahuasca, another plant.

385
00:41:21.650 --> 00:41:38.189
Penn Johnson: And… or a combination of plants, however you choose to see it. And the ayahuasca said you have to find this frog in the forest, and you are going to scrape the back of this frog and take its secretion, you're going to burn a hole in these people's skin, you're going to put the secretion on it, and they're going to purge, and then no one will die.

386
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Penn Johnson: So, the ayahuasca girls were like, that sounds nuts. Alright, let's do it. Plant says it, we're gonna do it. Probably a little bit more, you know, sacred or reverent way, but…

387
00:41:47.730 --> 00:41:54.240
Penn Johnson: When it comes down to it, that's what happened and the people who received that medicine were cured and those who didn't died.

388
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Penn Johnson: So the plants are constantly… I mean, when you think about an ayahuasca ceremony or a peyote ceremony, what's holding the space? It's not a human. It's the songs. It's the songs of the plants. In ayahuasca, they call them the ikaro, the songs of the plants. And…

389
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Penn Johnson: Those are the mantras that the earth is singing to us all of the time in bird songs, in

390
00:42:15.930 --> 00:42:30.320
Penn Johnson: insects in all of these different ways that are regulating our nervous system that we don't even realize, because we're so busy creating this story of, like, oh, I can't handle this noise, I can't handle this level of overstimulation.

391
00:42:30.700 --> 00:42:35.130
Penn Johnson: But it's because we're programmed to different levels of stimulation.

392
00:42:35.130 --> 00:42:35.910
Dwight: through…

393
00:42:36.020 --> 00:42:38.340
Penn Johnson: the frequencies of…

394
00:42:38.490 --> 00:42:50.360
Penn Johnson: cell phone towers, or Wi-Fi, or fluorescent lights, or phone screens, all of that stuff, food, all of these things are programming us into this one path of, like, oh.

395
00:42:50.360 --> 00:42:59.660
Penn Johnson: It's weird if you stand barefoot on the ground. It's weird if you do yoga in the parking lot. It's weird if you blah, blah, blah, blah, you know, creating all of these stories, and that pulls us away from

396
00:42:59.660 --> 00:43:01.950
Penn Johnson: From what is natural and what is true.

397
00:43:02.050 --> 00:43:10.309
Penn Johnson: And when people tap into that wisdom or can hear it, a lot of the things that people say about the music that I play is.

398
00:43:10.750 --> 00:43:17.360
Penn Johnson: Like I said, they're thoughts that they've thought but haven't been able to say because they haven't been able to listen to the earth.

399
00:43:17.470 --> 00:43:23.600
Penn Johnson: They haven't been able to listen to the wind, they haven't been able to listen to the elements, they haven't been able to.

400
00:43:25.080 --> 00:43:32.120
Penn Johnson: They haven't been open enough To receive that wisdom, those songs, those lessons.

401
00:43:32.690 --> 00:43:38.759
Penn Johnson: And… I think it's so interesting that one of the biggest ways that I…

402
00:43:39.770 --> 00:43:43.270
Penn Johnson: Continue to open to that is when I

403
00:43:43.810 --> 00:43:53.959
Penn Johnson: Often, I'm barefoot, like I said, pretty much exclusively at this point, unless I'm forced to wear shoes to go into some store or something when I have to do Babylon, you know, society shit.

404
00:43:54.210 --> 00:44:02.620
Penn Johnson: I will stub my foot, or cut my foot open, or in whatever capacity, and thank… and say thank you.

405
00:44:02.730 --> 00:44:12.170
Penn Johnson: Give thanks, give gratitude. Thank you for slowing me down. Thank you for making me stub my foot. Thank you for cutting my foot open. Thank you for showing me that part of me was out of alignment.

406
00:44:13.090 --> 00:44:24.039
Penn Johnson: you know, whether it's I'm telling a story or something, walking through the jungle telling a story to someone and not present, it's like, boom. What were you thinking about? What were you talking about? Was it a limited belief? Was it…

407
00:44:24.270 --> 00:44:33.150
Penn Johnson: An old story of a part that's no longer serving you and and having that awareness is is key for people and I feel that is.

408
00:44:33.680 --> 00:44:35.870
Penn Johnson: That in society.

409
00:44:36.740 --> 00:44:41.959
Penn Johnson: There's only a certain number of people who are really ever going to do this work and be open to it.

410
00:44:42.250 --> 00:44:54.329
Penn Johnson: And I think that's one of the things that I've been recognizing recently. And it's funny, because I've been mentioning to a bunch of friends of mine, oh, spectrum of allies. If you've ever heard of the spectrum of allies in activism, there's active opponents.

411
00:44:54.520 --> 00:44:55.980
Penn Johnson: Passive opponents.

412
00:44:56.130 --> 00:45:05.709
Penn Johnson: People who couldn't give a either way, neutral people, passive supporters and active supporters and these active opponents, unless

413
00:45:05.910 --> 00:45:11.670
Penn Johnson: A lot of the times, unless there is a crazy experience, they're just… they just will not.

414
00:45:11.970 --> 00:45:17.559
Penn Johnson: They will not see in your way. And I've stopped… I've stopped talking to those people.

415
00:45:17.710 --> 00:45:22.349
Penn Johnson: I've stopped including them in my circles, I've stopped replying to their comments, I've just…

416
00:45:22.480 --> 00:45:24.660
Penn Johnson: I just don't I don't have time.

417
00:45:24.990 --> 00:45:27.380
Penn Johnson: If someone is going to…

418
00:45:27.950 --> 00:45:38.110
Penn Johnson: You know, be a, be a keyboard warrior and type some that I know isn't true or whatever because I know, I think the thing that a lot of people don't realize is that

419
00:45:38.260 --> 00:45:40.059
Penn Johnson: They need to know who they are.

420
00:45:40.400 --> 00:45:48.179
Penn Johnson: And a lot of people don't know who they are, they're relying on other people's observations to tell them rather than yeah, yeah.

421
00:45:48.180 --> 00:46:02.159
Maddox: Speak to that. This is coming up for me really big right now. I think that you are right. People don't want to know themselves, and I think that is why we see I've thought for a long time that

422
00:46:02.960 --> 00:46:05.359
Maddox: Alcohol abuse.

423
00:46:05.830 --> 00:46:07.340
Maddox: Drug abuse.

424
00:46:07.970 --> 00:46:09.850
Maddox: Addictive shopping.

425
00:46:10.250 --> 00:46:12.300
Maddox: Workholism.

426
00:46:12.450 --> 00:46:27.149
Maddox: And a whole other host of things. Our constant busyness, where we can't slow down for even for a minute. It is all to distract ourselves from having to be with self.

427
00:46:27.780 --> 00:46:28.430
Penn Johnson: Yep.

428
00:46:28.430 --> 00:46:35.099
Maddox: I think… I've thought for many, many years that What we describe as boredom?

429
00:46:36.100 --> 00:46:40.179
Maddox: Is really discomfort with being with self.

430
00:46:40.830 --> 00:46:41.490
Dwight: Yes.

431
00:46:41.490 --> 00:46:48.140
Maddox: When I got there was a point in my I I can remember when I was young I was bored a lot.

432
00:46:48.660 --> 00:46:49.400
Penn Johnson: Ha ha ha.

433
00:46:49.400 --> 00:46:54.609
Maddox: And then there was a point where boredom just kind of… Left my life!

434
00:46:55.010 --> 00:46:57.989
Maddox: And I spent a lot of time thinking about it, and I thought.

435
00:47:00.220 --> 00:47:16.380
Maddox: Boredom is… is the word we've given it. We've named it boredom, but that feeling that we feel is really just an extreme discomfort in being with self, and when I got comfortable being with myself.

436
00:47:16.440 --> 00:47:21.029
Maddox: The word boredom left my vocabulary.

437
00:47:21.980 --> 00:47:30.969
Dwight: I'd like to offer another channel for something that you're speaking to. This whole notion that people have this.

438
00:47:30.990 --> 00:47:49.559
Dwight: width of possibilities with what they're able to perceive, and how they can see the world when they're very young. I know it's something that was talked about by the philosopher Albert Camus, but I really liked a treatment of it

439
00:47:49.650 --> 00:47:54.909
Dwight: That was in a book by Robert Greene called Mastery.

440
00:47:55.090 --> 00:47:58.819
Dwight: In this book, there are examples of a lot of people.

441
00:47:58.820 --> 00:48:02.110
Penn Johnson: Just picked up that book the other day in my friend's house, by the way.

442
00:48:02.110 --> 00:48:03.280
Dwight: Okay.

443
00:48:03.280 --> 00:48:04.110
Penn Johnson: Can't make this shit up.

444
00:48:04.130 --> 00:48:19.580
Dwight: I love the way there are countless examples of people that have been able to break out and do amazing things, and the very first one that he opens with is that of Leonardo da Vinci.

445
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Dwight: And the thing about Da Vinci was he didn't have all of the ways of being constrained to live a certain life. He was not going to ascend a throne, he was not going to be nobility. His parents just left him alone and let him go in the woods.

446
00:48:37.960 --> 00:48:45.930
Dwight: And so this kid could go and draw all the creatures that he saw and let his thoughts go where they went and we have a guy that

447
00:48:46.060 --> 00:48:55.519
Dwight: Designed a helicopter before we actually had all of the supporting technology to actually make it fly.

448
00:48:57.930 --> 00:49:07.670
Penn Johnson: Yeah, it's… The… The creative potential that exists when we are not limited by those perceptory gates.

449
00:49:07.950 --> 00:49:17.129
Penn Johnson: or we can get out of the way enough to even accept that they're there. You know, Maddox, as someone from… and Dwight, you, like, you guys are from…

450
00:49:17.380 --> 00:49:21.400
Penn Johnson: A general, like, to see you guys doing this work.

451
00:49:21.610 --> 00:49:24.760
Penn Johnson: gives me… A lot of joy.

452
00:49:24.980 --> 00:49:37.750
Penn Johnson: Because the reason… one of the reasons that I do this work and believe so strongly in this is because I… I want people in my life who are older than me to see that all of us have things to share.

453
00:49:37.870 --> 00:49:42.300
Penn Johnson: wisdom to be… to be expressed.

454
00:49:42.620 --> 00:49:44.359
Penn Johnson: And I…

455
00:49:44.810 --> 00:49:52.609
Penn Johnson: I applaud the elders who have taken the time to do this work and sit with these parts of themselves and be open to this.

456
00:49:52.750 --> 00:50:00.200
Penn Johnson: Because… There's a lot of people in your guys' generation who are just not… I hate to, like…

457
00:50:01.580 --> 00:50:07.920
Penn Johnson: To boil it down to this, but not on the vibe, you know what I'm saying? They don't, they're not open to this kind of stuff.

458
00:50:07.920 --> 00:50:13.460
Maddox: You're you're exactly right. Exactly right. And Dwight and I are really in two different.

459
00:50:14.240 --> 00:50:14.840
Dwight: sports.

460
00:50:14.840 --> 00:50:20.810
Maddox: Yeah, yeah, we're we're we're in yeah, for I… I started…

461
00:50:21.080 --> 00:50:24.109
Maddox: Doing the work when I was 29 years old.

462
00:50:25.300 --> 00:50:28.980
Maddox: And in a couple of weeks, I'm going to be 70.

463
00:50:29.710 --> 00:50:30.340
Penn Johnson: Wow.

464
00:50:30.690 --> 00:50:32.400
Penn Johnson: Me too! When's your birthday?

465
00:50:32.930 --> 00:50:34.020
Maddox: November 3rd.

466
00:50:34.370 --> 00:50:35.560
Penn Johnson: October 24th.

467
00:50:36.710 --> 00:50:47.929
Maddox: And and it's it's been a lifelong thing for me. And it was not something I intended to do. It it was something that completely came upon me by accident.

468
00:50:48.090 --> 00:50:50.220
Maddox: Yeah, it was just very weird. I just…

469
00:50:50.840 --> 00:50:57.679
Maddox: An acquaintance said, oh, I just did the coolest thing. It was like a personal growth workshop. Just go do it. Trust me, go do it.

470
00:50:57.680 --> 00:50:58.020
Penn Johnson: Yeah.

471
00:50:58.020 --> 00:51:03.879
Maddox: No idea what it was. A partner and I at the time didn't have any idea what it was, but we trusted him. So we just

472
00:51:04.620 --> 00:51:09.499
Maddox: wandered in, not knowing what we were getting ourselves into. It lasted a week long.

473
00:51:10.220 --> 00:51:12.410
Maddox: And,

474
00:51:12.610 --> 00:51:23.439
Maddox: I don't think it impacted the partner the way it did me. We were only together for a couple of years, and I don't think he ever did anything else. Me, I got on the gravy train, and I never got off.

475
00:51:24.230 --> 00:51:24.710
Penn Johnson: Yeah.

476
00:51:24.710 --> 00:51:36.939
Maddox: You know, and it, and it, a lot of it was really hard. It's still hard sometimes. It's, it's not as hard as it was back in the day. It was like, wow, when, when you're young and you don't.

477
00:51:37.130 --> 00:51:41.530
Maddox: really know yourself, That whole concept is…

478
00:51:41.860 --> 00:51:51.320
Maddox: Scary as shit. And and then embarking on it is even and the and I guess the saving grace was I didn't really know that's what I was doing.

479
00:51:52.390 --> 00:51:59.839
Maddox: You know, it's like, it took me a long time before I realized this is spirituality.

480
00:52:00.930 --> 00:52:01.420
Maddox: And.

481
00:52:01.420 --> 00:52:06.049
Penn Johnson: And there's also the other side of what you're saying, which is the people who do get off.

482
00:52:06.500 --> 00:52:18.890
Penn Johnson: There's so many, you know, I don't identify with the term hippie anymore, despite what people would think about my lifestyle, but there's so many hippies who have

483
00:52:19.210 --> 00:52:21.070
Penn Johnson: Shut down. Given up.

484
00:52:21.460 --> 00:52:30.290
Penn Johnson: And… I… I think it's… it's because they reach a point where they just… they flatline.

485
00:52:30.590 --> 00:52:33.450
Penn Johnson: And they don't, they don't actually have, they've been.

486
00:52:34.560 --> 00:52:50.809
Penn Johnson: you know, they've done the plant medicine, or the psychedelics, or the whatever that's got them to here, but they haven't done the integration after that. And they're just like, oh, boom. Like, I've already seen the things, I can't unsee them, but now I have to be a member of society in whatever way is blah blah blah acceptable. And it's like…

487
00:52:51.380 --> 00:52:52.560
Penn Johnson: to…

488
00:52:53.800 --> 00:53:04.740
Penn Johnson: An invitation for those people, maybe, to be open to receive wisdom from the younger generations, because there are some

489
00:53:05.070 --> 00:53:12.340
Penn Johnson: Crazy codes that are being given by All ages.

490
00:53:12.510 --> 00:53:19.409
Penn Johnson: And we look to sometimes we look to elders, and it's kind of sad, but I've been in a lot of communities where there are no elders.

491
00:53:19.860 --> 00:53:21.020
Penn Johnson: They don't exist anymore.

492
00:53:21.250 --> 00:53:40.550
Maddox: Or there are elders and nobody gives them the time of day or respects them. You know, we live in a society where don't people don't value the aged people, don't value the wisdom of the aged people. Yeah. I I have many friends that are young enough to be my grandchildren.

493
00:53:41.880 --> 00:53:43.240
Maddox: And…

494
00:53:44.150 --> 00:53:51.860
Maddox: They do often spew wisdom. They do often have wisdom. That is something that's different than my wisdom, just different than.

495
00:53:51.860 --> 00:53:52.260
Penn Johnson: what.

496
00:53:52.260 --> 00:53:56.390
Maddox: God. And they definitely,

497
00:53:56.730 --> 00:54:04.090
Maddox: tend to see the world through fresher eyes. They haven't been beaten down and jaded by society.

498
00:54:04.090 --> 00:54:04.710
Penn Johnson: you.

499
00:54:05.140 --> 00:54:05.770
Maddox: yet.

500
00:54:06.020 --> 00:54:11.950
Maddox: So, there's, there's this, this freshness that's very appealing to me.

501
00:54:12.390 --> 00:54:16.610
Maddox: I have… I have… I have few friends my own age.

502
00:54:17.510 --> 00:54:18.120
Penn Johnson: view.

503
00:54:18.840 --> 00:54:22.540
Maddox: Because most of them I just I can't I can't be around.

504
00:54:23.020 --> 00:54:23.670
Penn Johnson: Yeah.

505
00:54:23.670 --> 00:54:29.510
Maddox: There's just something about it that just… they're living a life that's not the life I've chosen.

506
00:54:31.630 --> 00:54:32.300
Maddox: And so.

507
00:54:32.300 --> 00:54:32.840
Penn Johnson: realizing.

508
00:54:32.840 --> 00:54:35.660
Maddox: Imitate to people that are younger than I am.

509
00:54:36.080 --> 00:54:41.690
Penn Johnson: And realizing when to release those friendships is huge. I have

510
00:54:42.200 --> 00:54:53.470
Penn Johnson: countless people in my life who no longer have access to me because they… they just don't respect who I am, or my work, or how far I've come, or any of that. They just… they see me in the old story.

511
00:54:53.790 --> 00:55:12.759
Penn Johnson: And I… I don't… I no longer allow those people access to my life. And one thing you said when you spoke, which I haven't really spoken to this a whole, whole lot, maybe even at all, on any podcasts or any… any, social shares or anything, but my…

512
00:55:13.080 --> 00:55:26.080
Penn Johnson: when my grandfather… so I returned from Asia, I was in Thailand, and I got this video call from my parents, and my grandfather had just fallen 2 times in 24 hours, and I saw him on video, and I was like, he's gonna die soon, I have to go.

513
00:55:26.690 --> 00:55:31.950
Penn Johnson: And I booked a flight, like, the next few days, you know, just flew right back to Florida.

514
00:55:32.230 --> 00:55:35.529
Penn Johnson: And spent a month between.

515
00:55:35.740 --> 00:55:46.170
Penn Johnson: his… where he was, a client's house, and my parents, sort of in this triangle. And in that time, we had 8 or 9 conversations while he was in…

516
00:55:46.930 --> 00:55:52.390
Penn Johnson: Not end of care, but, I mean, you know, near the end. And…

517
00:55:54.670 --> 00:55:59.809
Penn Johnson: Listening back to those, listening again to those conversations.

518
00:56:00.070 --> 00:56:04.330
Penn Johnson: And hearing those tiny gems of wisdom.

519
00:56:04.510 --> 00:56:06.920
Penn Johnson: that come from

520
00:56:07.150 --> 00:56:14.040
Penn Johnson: That being so close to what's next, being so close to the veil or the other side, and

521
00:56:14.530 --> 00:56:25.780
Penn Johnson: A lot of people, they do the same thing with kids, they'll be like, oh, that's a silly thing for a kid to say something about an entity or something like that or whatever, a ghost in the house or something, and now we're hearing.

522
00:56:26.020 --> 00:56:41.600
Penn Johnson: you know, more and more people are coming out and saying, yeah, I suppressed this forever, but really it was a psychic gift that I was able to ascertain different energies in the house, etc, you know? And we… we just shut… we… we do, we shut them down, we don't give them the time to speak.

523
00:56:41.670 --> 00:56:53.470
Penn Johnson: And I was lucky enough to sit with him eight or nine times and just full presence, hour to three hours of time, sing songs, hear his reflections, hear where he was at.

524
00:56:53.910 --> 00:57:00.800
Penn Johnson: On the journey, and what he'd learned, and stories from his life that he was recounting and thinking about, and…

525
00:57:00.920 --> 00:57:02.050
Penn Johnson: It was…

526
00:57:04.110 --> 00:57:15.320
Penn Johnson: I hadn't had a chance to do that for any of my other grandparents, and I would challenge anybody who is listening to this, who has

527
00:57:15.800 --> 00:57:19.009
Penn Johnson: Grandparents or elder friends.

528
00:57:19.630 --> 00:57:22.350
Penn Johnson: To really sit with those people.

529
00:57:23.400 --> 00:57:27.040
Penn Johnson: And hear their wisdom because those people.

530
00:57:27.920 --> 00:57:29.740
Penn Johnson: They have access.

531
00:57:29.960 --> 00:57:31.570
Penn Johnson: to something that

532
00:57:32.260 --> 00:57:37.180
Penn Johnson: We ask questions about and we're not listening to the answers when they're right in front of us.

533
00:57:37.840 --> 00:57:44.819
Penn Johnson: And that's something that… I have been doing a lot more in my life, is…

534
00:57:45.290 --> 00:57:48.119
Penn Johnson: Recognizing when someone shows up.

535
00:57:48.740 --> 00:57:51.399
Penn Johnson: That that person has something to teach me.

536
00:57:51.690 --> 00:57:56.239
Penn Johnson: Even if it's someone I don't like or even if it's someone I have,

537
00:57:56.480 --> 00:58:01.580
Penn Johnson: A situation with, or whatever comes up, it's like, that person is here.

538
00:58:01.690 --> 00:58:05.580
Penn Johnson: For a reason, and I'm going to be open

539
00:58:05.910 --> 00:58:10.950
Penn Johnson: To what that reason may be rather than creating a story.

540
00:58:11.110 --> 00:58:19.539
Penn Johnson: that protects The version of me that I think is the The, the true version.

541
00:58:19.540 --> 00:58:30.139
Maddox: You know, you're touching on something here that I think is really delicate, but really important, because we just had a conversation a minute ago about the number of people that don't have access to you anymore.

542
00:58:30.190 --> 00:58:45.799
Maddox: And now the people that, you know, you may not even agree with or like, but you're… you're listening to them because you sense that they have wisdom. And what you're describing there is, this only comes when you get to know yourself.

543
00:58:46.230 --> 00:58:50.609
Maddox: To be able to discern the people that it's okay to move away from.

544
00:58:52.270 --> 00:58:57.930
Maddox: And see the difference between those and the people who you need to sit with.

545
00:58:58.190 --> 00:59:00.570
Maddox: And receive the gifts that they have for you.

546
00:59:01.420 --> 00:59:02.190
Penn Johnson: Yeah.

547
00:59:02.190 --> 00:59:09.650
Maddox: We, we, we can only do that when we have done our work and know ourselves enough to be able to.

548
00:59:09.810 --> 00:59:17.019
Maddox: Allow our own wisdom to come through and say, move away from this, move towards this.

549
00:59:17.640 --> 00:59:18.250
Penn Johnson: Yeah.

550
00:59:19.070 --> 00:59:20.500
Penn Johnson: Yeah, and…

551
00:59:21.640 --> 00:59:28.580
Penn Johnson: It is, it can be so interesting. I was sitting in a hot spring the other day and

552
00:59:28.740 --> 00:59:36.920
Penn Johnson: Within 20 minutes of me going through, I I sat there for like two hours and I just meditated and just disappeared and forgot I was a human.

553
00:59:37.040 --> 00:59:46.939
Penn Johnson: And I was watching these dragonflies do dragonfly things and all these other shadows in the trees and what I was, I was going places completely sober and.

554
00:59:47.330 --> 00:59:48.360
Penn Johnson: I.

555
00:59:49.000 --> 00:59:51.200
Penn Johnson: Two people showed up in my field.

556
00:59:52.400 --> 00:59:54.480
Penn Johnson: Who I have old stories about.

557
00:59:54.720 --> 00:59:58.140
Penn Johnson: And I was able to be with those people.

558
00:59:58.740 --> 01:00:06.439
Penn Johnson: But it was almost like, have you seen the Celestine prophecy? I know there's a there's a there's a book as well, the movie's based off of, but there's this moment in the Celestine prophecy.

559
01:00:06.440 --> 01:00:07.469
Maddox: I read the book.

560
01:00:07.980 --> 01:00:10.619
Penn Johnson: So there's this moment where these people are…

561
01:00:11.090 --> 01:00:18.170
Penn Johnson: Unseeable by these other people because they have entered another dimension, essentially, another.

562
01:00:18.290 --> 01:00:19.849
Penn Johnson: Frequency.

563
01:00:20.640 --> 01:00:23.430
Penn Johnson: And I feel when I'm in a situation like that.

564
01:00:23.890 --> 01:00:33.070
Penn Johnson: that I do something similar. Like, I'm not accessible to those people on their frequency. Like, it's almost like they can't even see me, like I'm invisible.

565
01:00:33.380 --> 01:00:39.479
Penn Johnson: And it's it's happened a few times where it's actually quite strange. For example, I was in a parking lot in Bend, Oregon.

566
01:00:39.650 --> 01:00:51.700
Penn Johnson: And I have a lot of protections and medicines in my van that I have when I'm on the West Coast. And a friend of mine said he searched this entire parking lot and could not see a van.

567
01:00:53.670 --> 01:01:06.560
Penn Johnson: And I was like, must be some really strong protections on there, you know? Because I was like… Wow. I was like, I'm gonna leave this parking lot, this van does not exist, you know? And it's… so things… things like that have been reflected

568
01:01:06.670 --> 01:01:11.199
Penn Johnson: Especially lately to me and rather than seeing it as like.

569
01:01:12.240 --> 01:01:15.649
Penn Johnson: I, I, my biggest wish for people.

570
01:01:15.930 --> 01:01:19.070
Penn Johnson: Who hear me speak, and may hear…

571
01:01:19.190 --> 01:01:34.330
Penn Johnson: levels of arrogance or better-than-thou-ness, which has been reflected to me and is a big part of my shadow. I don't just want this for me, I want it for everybody. Like, I am God and you are too, you know? Like, we are all…

572
01:01:34.570 --> 01:01:36.980
Penn Johnson: This is, like, it's all of us together.

573
01:01:36.980 --> 01:01:38.000
Maddox: We're all one.

574
01:01:38.390 --> 01:01:47.330
Penn Johnson: It's not… there's no… I'm not trying to put myself on the top of the mountain, because when you get to the top of the mountain, and there's no homies there.

575
01:01:48.690 --> 01:01:52.030
Penn Johnson: What are you? What are you going to do? What's the plan? Exactly?

576
01:01:52.030 --> 01:01:53.029
Maddox: What's the point of playing?

577
01:01:53.030 --> 01:01:53.689
Penn Johnson: At that point.

578
01:01:53.960 --> 01:02:02.349
Maddox: I haven't thought of the Celestine prophecy in a very long time. I don't even remember when that book came out. It was a long time ago.

579
01:02:02.350 --> 01:02:02.740
Penn Johnson: the.

580
01:02:02.740 --> 01:02:03.749
Dwight: 90s, wasn't it?

581
01:02:03.750 --> 01:02:08.720
Maddox: It… it… Had a really big impact on me.

582
01:02:09.190 --> 01:02:15.490
Maddox: And now, you just bringing it up is just, like, my mind is just racing, and I'm… I'm… I'm…

583
01:02:15.490 --> 01:02:16.030
Penn Johnson: you.

584
01:02:16.030 --> 01:02:19.149
Maddox: back on the pieces of it that I can remember.

585
01:02:19.700 --> 01:02:20.470
Penn Johnson: Wondering.

586
01:02:20.640 --> 01:02:25.070
Maddox: What… what would it be like to reread that book after all these years?

587
01:02:25.650 --> 01:02:26.980
Penn Johnson: Yeah, revisiting…

588
01:02:26.980 --> 01:02:33.119
Maddox: What would I see differently now than I saw when I read it the first time?

589
01:02:33.500 --> 01:02:34.020
Penn Johnson: Mmm.

590
01:02:34.020 --> 01:02:37.080
Maddox: Had a huge impact on me then. It was just like.

591
01:02:39.110 --> 01:02:39.620
Maddox: probably.

592
01:02:39.620 --> 01:02:42.799
Penn Johnson: pretty revolutionary for its time as well, in the sense that how…

593
01:02:42.800 --> 01:02:44.079
Maddox: I'll get rid of the poppy.

594
01:02:44.080 --> 01:02:44.650
Penn Johnson: Clarity.

595
01:02:44.650 --> 01:02:45.220
Maddox: you.

596
01:02:45.390 --> 01:02:49.240
Penn Johnson: And the, I think that's the interesting thing about

597
01:02:49.440 --> 01:02:53.430
Penn Johnson: Music, right? So, people will ask me.

598
01:02:53.770 --> 01:02:56.189
Penn Johnson: Because I do these immersions and they are

599
01:02:56.470 --> 01:03:00.240
Penn Johnson: They are, they have a high price because

600
01:03:00.550 --> 01:03:05.229
Penn Johnson: I value my time and energy, and I know what it took to get here.

601
01:03:05.380 --> 01:03:10.210
Penn Johnson: To become this person, and I am essentially

602
01:03:11.780 --> 01:03:16.500
Penn Johnson: I forget what the word is, but divulging? Is that the word?

603
01:03:18.180 --> 01:03:20.000
Penn Johnson: 13 years.

604
01:03:20.400 --> 01:03:23.770
Penn Johnson: Of wisdom in 7 days.

605
01:03:24.200 --> 01:03:27.370
Penn Johnson: Right. And giving people the tools to

606
01:03:28.620 --> 01:03:33.099
Penn Johnson: Essentially break out of whatever prison they've put themselves in.

607
01:03:33.210 --> 01:03:41.610
Penn Johnson: In any aspect, any and all aspects of their life and giving them permission 2

608
01:03:42.400 --> 01:03:54.830
Penn Johnson: move forward from there. And the songs are the biggest piece of it, and some people don't… they don't get it, and that's okay, it's not for everybody, but the people who do get it, it's like you said, Maddox.

609
01:03:55.080 --> 01:03:58.920
Penn Johnson: The, when you re-listen to a song.

610
01:03:59.310 --> 01:04:05.650
Penn Johnson: after whatever experience or you reread a book after whatever experience, there's always deeper layers.

611
01:04:06.330 --> 01:04:11.840
Penn Johnson: You can't get everything from 1 listen, you can't, even if I don't like a record.

612
01:04:12.000 --> 01:04:13.600
Penn Johnson: I'll listen to it twice.

613
01:04:13.950 --> 01:04:15.030
Penn Johnson: Because.

614
01:04:15.690 --> 01:04:19.409
Penn Johnson: There are things to be learned from.

615
01:04:19.550 --> 01:04:23.539
Penn Johnson: Pieces of art that we do not resonate with.

616
01:04:23.540 --> 01:04:24.170
Maddox: I.

617
01:04:24.170 --> 01:04:25.739
Penn Johnson: Upon first listen.

618
01:04:25.980 --> 01:04:27.260
Penn Johnson: Or first glance.

619
01:04:27.260 --> 01:04:31.399
Maddox: Yes, I agree completely. I tripped on a song the other day.

620
01:04:31.630 --> 01:04:36.229
Maddox: by Three Dog Night from 1970 called Monkey.

621
01:04:36.230 --> 01:04:36.590
Penn Johnson: moment.

622
01:04:36.590 --> 01:04:43.290
Maddox: Mama told me. Mama told me not to come. I hadn't heard that song in decades and decades.

623
01:04:43.650 --> 01:04:44.160
Penn Johnson: Mmhm.

624
01:04:44.160 --> 01:04:50.490
Maddox: And it just wowed me how I was able to sing along with the song, yet

625
01:04:50.700 --> 01:04:55.100
Maddox: I didn't even remember what the words were…

626
01:04:55.900 --> 01:05:02.640
Maddox: When the song came into my mind. It was… And I had…

627
01:05:02.780 --> 01:05:07.639
Maddox: Never really listened to the words for their true meaning.

628
01:05:08.200 --> 01:05:18.409
Maddox: As a kid, the song was just something that we sang along to, it was a good melody, it had a good vibe to it, but I never really plugged into the meaning of the song.

629
01:05:19.020 --> 01:05:28.050
Maddox: And I listened to it this time, and I listened to the words, and I got the meaning, and it had just this completely different impact on me.

630
01:05:28.570 --> 01:05:28.970
Penn Johnson: Yep.

631
01:05:28.970 --> 01:05:41.210
Maddox: I still was very drawn to the song, but the song… yeah, it's… if you have a chance, if you don't know the song I'm talking about, Mama Told Me Not to Come is the name of it, and… Yeah.

632
01:05:41.740 --> 01:05:42.780
Maddox: Wow.

633
01:05:43.170 --> 01:05:45.799
Penn Johnson: So now imagine that experience.

634
01:05:46.340 --> 01:05:55.130
Penn Johnson: Catered to exactly what you're going through in life at that moment and re-listening to that over and over and over again.

635
01:05:55.440 --> 01:05:55.970
Penn Johnson: He's.

636
01:05:55.970 --> 01:05:56.580
Maddox: something.

637
01:05:56.580 --> 01:05:58.129
Penn Johnson: That's what this music does for people.

638
01:05:58.130 --> 01:05:59.330
Maddox: Absolutely, I agree.

639
01:05:59.330 --> 01:05:59.980
Penn Johnson: complete.

640
01:05:59.980 --> 01:06:09.519
Maddox: You you said something else a minute ago that sparked something in me, and you talked about realizing that it was not an alignment to go for the

641
01:06:09.520 --> 01:06:25.079
Maddox: the big music and the fame and the fortune and all that, that it was out of alignment. Now, you would rather be in a room full of, you know, 7 people, or how many ever it was you said, delivering something that was deep and meaningful.

642
01:06:25.250 --> 01:06:31.390
Maddox: And I was relating this to how, as I've always

643
01:06:31.940 --> 01:06:36.819
Maddox: Been really friend related. I've always really, really, like, been.

644
01:06:36.950 --> 01:06:38.549
Maddox: very much about

645
01:06:39.160 --> 01:06:48.809
Maddox: the community piece that we talk about in this podcast on every episode, community, and it's not the community at large, it's not that… that word, the way we think of it.

646
01:06:48.920 --> 01:06:52.059
Maddox: For me, real community is the people that

647
01:06:53.120 --> 01:06:59.530
Maddox: I can be around, and they allow me to be just exactly who I am.

648
01:07:00.450 --> 01:07:01.000
Maddox: And they love.

649
01:07:01.000 --> 01:07:01.320
Dwight: Yeah.

650
01:07:01.320 --> 01:07:04.140
Maddox: for who I am. I don't have to put on any airs.

651
01:07:04.200 --> 01:07:15.589
Maddox: But I think that I look back and think about the big splashy parties that I used to throw, with a house full of people. You know, it was the masses, and it kind of represents that

652
01:07:15.590 --> 01:07:26.460
Maddox: that the music and the fame that you're describing. And as I have matured and really begin to understand more clearly

653
01:07:26.460 --> 01:07:41.099
Maddox: what's really, really important. Now, it's… it's narrowing down, and narrowing down to where… Yeah. I… you know, there was a time when I… I wanted to be popular. I wanted… because I wasn't growing up. I wanted to be popular. I wanted everybody to love.

654
01:07:41.100 --> 01:07:41.670
Penn Johnson: Me neither.

655
01:07:41.670 --> 01:07:42.389
Maddox: Lots of friends.

656
01:07:42.390 --> 01:07:43.230
Penn Johnson: I.

657
01:07:43.230 --> 01:07:53.730
Maddox: And now… I just want this tiny little group of people that I know are there for me.

658
01:07:53.920 --> 01:07:55.749
Maddox: And they know I'm there for them.

659
01:07:56.550 --> 01:08:06.919
Maddox: Those, those sacred friendships that are the, you know, not the, not the, the reason, not the season, but the lifetime.

660
01:08:06.920 --> 01:08:07.800
Penn Johnson: one.

661
01:08:07.800 --> 01:08:12.919
Maddox: I focus on, and that is the community. And you're talking about we haven't.

662
01:08:13.040 --> 01:08:19.739
Maddox: said this yet, but when you start talking about bringing people together for a 7-day retreat.

663
01:08:20.279 --> 01:08:22.120
Maddox: That's community.

664
01:08:22.870 --> 01:08:32.220
Maddox: 100%. At its purest form, actually, because when you're going through something gut-wrenching, like I know that probably has to be, because I've done enough of it to know.

665
01:08:32.890 --> 01:08:38.669
Maddox: It breaks down all the walls, and you see all the… all the warts on each other's asses.

666
01:08:39.439 --> 01:08:43.149
Penn Johnson: Yes, what a way to put it, yeah, I think.

667
01:08:43.419 --> 01:08:46.769
Penn Johnson: I think the, the most interesting thing about

668
01:08:47.249 --> 01:08:50.919
Penn Johnson: And, and by doing that we are building more community, right?

669
01:08:50.999 --> 01:09:05.869
Penn Johnson: We are opening each other up to others… to each other's gifts and talents and offerings and services, and that's how things used to be. There used to be… everybody had a thing, right? When you needed…

670
01:09:05.869 --> 01:09:18.939
Penn Johnson: Medicine, you would go to the medicine man. When you needed music, you would go to the musician. When you needed the herbs, you would go to the herbalist. It used to be when you needed food, you would go to a farm, you know, and we've moved away from that in society.

671
01:09:18.939 --> 01:09:22.119
Dwight: Yeah, we've been tricked into going to the big box store.

672
01:09:22.399 --> 01:09:35.539
Penn Johnson: And it's insane. It's like I can't even walk into those stores anymore, really. It's so hard for me to just be like, what do you mean everything is all in one spot? Why what and it's like we're convenience oriented.

673
01:09:35.540 --> 01:09:36.060
Maddox: you.

674
01:09:36.260 --> 01:09:39.519
Penn Johnson: Yeah, and it's created in a way… It's all about convenience. You know?

675
01:09:39.630 --> 01:09:53.879
Penn Johnson: It's, it's, it blows people's minds a lot when they come to the Big Island, which is where I spend a lot of my time these days. And because they see, they see this, they see the community, they see people creating and they see.

676
01:09:54.540 --> 01:09:55.969
Penn Johnson: that it's possible.

677
01:09:56.210 --> 01:09:59.910
Penn Johnson: And that's one of the coolest things about this place is that.

678
01:10:00.290 --> 01:10:07.139
Penn Johnson: You need some ridiculously niche, Thing that… you can find it here.

679
01:10:07.360 --> 01:10:16.429
Penn Johnson: Whether it's, you know, a new way to open up a… I have this crazy coconut, scooping device that this guy, like, invented.

680
01:10:16.450 --> 01:10:34.020
Penn Johnson: And he just gave my friend, like, 40 of them, and was like, here, like, try to sell these for me. Doesn't exist anywhere else. I love things like that. I love… I don't… the idea of having a shirt that someone else owns freaks me out. The idea of seeing someone in the same jacket, or pants, or, like, whatever… I just want us all to be…

681
01:10:34.460 --> 01:10:49.240
Penn Johnson: the unique versions of ourselves, and I feel like one of the things that these big box stores are doing is turning us on to carbon copies of what the… what the status quo wants us to be. And they're full of chemicals, we, like, you know, not even going there, but it's like…

682
01:10:49.240 --> 01:10:56.289
Penn Johnson: Creating these picture-perfect, cookie-cutter versions of humans, which are really just watered-down versions of

683
01:10:56.290 --> 01:11:01.600
Penn Johnson: The immense star beings that we have the potential to really tap into.

684
01:11:01.600 --> 01:11:05.150
Maddox: Look at all the cars on the street. You can't tell what, what making money.

685
01:11:05.150 --> 01:11:05.520
Penn Johnson: freebie.

686
01:11:05.520 --> 01:11:09.090
Maddox: Anymore, unless you look at the label on it, because they all look alike.

687
01:11:09.260 --> 01:11:09.850
Penn Johnson: Yep.

688
01:11:10.160 --> 01:11:28.959
Dwight: I think that there are places where we can capture glimpses of a time when people had to be more creative. I remember years ago, I would take pilgrimages to some legacy villages, the Henry Ford Center.

689
01:11:29.030 --> 01:11:42.589
Dwight: has a village that's a lot of transported, saved buildings that they've put in to model what things were like in simpler times, and

690
01:11:42.760 --> 01:11:51.730
Dwight: I remember the experience of going into a one-room schoolhouse that was preserved for the period that it was rescued from.

691
01:11:52.220 --> 01:11:59.510
Dwight: And it was incredible. They preserved an exhibit that they had with

692
01:12:00.140 --> 01:12:03.860
Dwight: A, a wasp's nest that was a teaching tool.

693
01:12:04.870 --> 01:12:08.870
Dwight: And I got to see an.

694
01:12:09.890 --> 01:12:16.140
Dwight: An old barber shop, in the time when barbers did Surgeries.

695
01:12:16.630 --> 01:12:17.390
Dwight: Bloodland.

696
01:12:17.390 --> 01:12:17.920
Maddox: getting.

697
01:12:17.920 --> 01:12:19.210
Dwight: Yes.

698
01:12:19.480 --> 01:12:26.690
Dwight: And here's the thing about… Tapping into those things, coming from a world where you can

699
01:12:27.030 --> 01:12:35.950
Dwight: get hundreds of different choices for whatever widget you could imagine on Amazon, or wherever.

700
01:12:37.520 --> 01:12:53.790
Dwight: People just had their neighbors. People had to think outside the box and figure things out because if you were in a place that didn't have roads, you just had to solve the problem and you, you would invent something because you needed it.

701
01:12:54.470 --> 01:12:55.560
Dwight: And…

702
01:12:55.890 --> 01:13:05.129
Dwight: It wasn't to, register a patent, or to… as a means of being able to find your fortune, it was just to get through the day.

703
01:13:06.220 --> 01:13:06.580
Penn Johnson: Yeah.

704
01:13:06.580 --> 01:13:14.029
Dwight: Unfortunately, I can see how people are ruined by all of the ways that life is convenient.

705
01:13:14.700 --> 01:13:19.779
Dwight: And we're, we're being poisoned and we're entertaining ourselves to death.

706
01:13:20.460 --> 01:13:24.220
Dwight: You know, reaching back to that whole thing about boredom.

707
01:13:25.250 --> 01:13:33.010
Dwight: It's… It's tragic to think that in… In any urban setting.

708
01:13:33.740 --> 01:13:45.530
Dwight: We're probably surrounded by more screens, more devices, more gadgets, more monitors. We're filmed by more cameras. We're being observed and surveilled in so many ways.

709
01:13:45.700 --> 01:13:55.059
Dwight: And some of these… some of these ways… some of these things are designed to predict our needs, and to make it so that we're more easily sold to.

710
01:13:55.600 --> 01:14:08.589
Dwight: Because they're just there to further cheapen our lives and make it so that the rats in the laboratory probably have fuller, richer lives than the people that are walking the street.

711
01:14:11.240 --> 01:14:13.210
Penn Johnson: That was… Profound.

712
01:14:14.920 --> 01:14:19.469
Maddox: Yes, I agree, Dwight. That was pretty frigging profound.

713
01:14:19.890 --> 01:14:23.240
Penn Johnson: That was amazing. Wow. I'm just gonna give a moment of silence for that.

714
01:14:23.710 --> 01:14:26.109
Maddox: Gentlemen, this has been an absolutely fascinating

715
01:14:26.230 --> 01:14:40.339
Maddox: Fabulously amazing conversation and I think we have run quite a bit over time. So I want to ask for anybody, Penn, that is interested in perhaps finding out more about these retreats that you do in the jungle.

716
01:14:40.340 --> 01:14:41.380
Penn Johnson: Yeah.

717
01:14:41.380 --> 01:14:45.000
Maddox: have a website? Is there a place they can go to learn more about this?

718
01:14:45.170 --> 01:14:52.230
Penn Johnson: Yes. I know we've gone over, but I I did want to play a song, if that's okay, a quick three-minute song, if you're open to it.

719
01:14:52.230 --> 01:14:54.420
Maddox: hear it. Let's hear it.

720
01:14:54.420 --> 01:14:54.920
Penn Johnson: And.

721
01:14:54.920 --> 01:14:59.640
Maddox: site will be in the show notes for those, so I just wanted to make sure… Ken Johnson.

722
01:14:59.650 --> 01:15:01.330
Penn Johnson: PennJohnson.net.

723
01:15:01.600 --> 01:15:06.349
Penn Johnson: And, two ends, like Pennsylvania, where I was inspired to start playing music.

724
01:15:07.240 --> 01:15:10.469
Penn Johnson: So I was in , I was in Costa Rica with a client of mine, and

725
01:15:11.400 --> 01:15:15.429
Penn Johnson: It was just before, like, as the jungle was waking up.

726
01:15:16.520 --> 01:15:25.309
Penn Johnson: And I sat there on this couch outside, we were surrounded by howler monkeys, and they're doing their howler monkey thing, and the insects are going crazy, and there are bats flying in and out of the house.

727
01:15:26.110 --> 01:15:27.110
Penn Johnson: And…

728
01:15:28.110 --> 01:15:37.359
Penn Johnson: The song started coming through and I was like, this doesn't sound like it's for someone else. It sounds like it's for me, and it was a love song to myself, so.

729
01:15:49.350 --> 01:15:52.350
Penn Johnson: Well, I've been listening closely.

730
01:15:53.560 --> 01:15:59.660
Penn Johnson: To what the jungle has to share, and it's a soft reminder to be.

731
01:16:00.260 --> 01:16:05.579
Penn Johnson: Even better in every way, and what a chance to dispel.

732
01:16:06.990 --> 01:16:18.280
Penn Johnson: All the misconceived portraits of what you might think maybe. It's a form of masculine and it's always been you.

733
01:16:20.570 --> 01:16:25.289
Penn Johnson: Sleeping next to me, and it's always been you.

734
01:16:27.050 --> 01:16:31.740
Penn Johnson: Laying with your head so sweet and it's always been you.

735
01:16:33.770 --> 01:16:38.460
Penn Johnson: Beside me when I dream it's always been you

736
01:16:39.610 --> 01:16:44.949
Penn Johnson: In my heart constantly, yeah, it's always been you.

737
01:16:49.270 --> 01:16:52.030
Penn Johnson: Well, I've been walking on bare feet.

738
01:16:53.660 --> 01:16:59.920
Penn Johnson: Down. Himalayan hills torn, ripped, and calloused open.

739
01:17:00.380 --> 01:17:05.540
Penn Johnson: Ready for what comes next, and I've been searching in the stars.

740
01:17:07.050 --> 01:17:18.420
Penn Johnson: For traces of the truth, and it's been years and miles that I've been sifting through, and it's always been you.

741
01:17:20.380 --> 01:17:24.719
Penn Johnson: Sleeping next to me, and it's always been you.

742
01:17:26.000 --> 01:17:31.250
Penn Johnson: Laying with your head so sweet, and it's always been you.

743
01:17:33.360 --> 01:17:37.780
Penn Johnson: Beside me when I dream, and it's always been you.

744
01:17:39.790 --> 01:17:44.380
Penn Johnson: In my heart constantly, yeah, it's always been you.

745
01:18:08.400 --> 01:18:11.379
Penn Johnson: Couple hours for sunrise.

746
01:18:12.690 --> 01:18:19.120
Penn Johnson: When the stillness starts to speak, the words I slip in, I'm halfway.

747
01:18:19.310 --> 01:18:24.270
Penn Johnson: Falling back into sleep, I just wanted to tell you…

748
01:18:25.990 --> 01:18:32.240
Penn Johnson: You're doing everything that your ancestors prayed for.

749
01:18:32.600 --> 01:18:37.530
Penn Johnson: They're up there smiling, and it's always been you.

750
01:18:38.630 --> 01:18:43.730
Penn Johnson: Sleeping next to me and it's always been you.

751
01:18:45.980 --> 01:18:50.249
Penn Johnson: Laying with your head so sweet and it's always been you.

752
01:18:52.380 --> 01:18:57.009
Penn Johnson: Beside me when I dream and it's always been you.

753
01:18:58.130 --> 01:19:03.379
Penn Johnson: In my heart constantly, yeah, it's always been you.

754
01:19:08.180 --> 01:19:11.190
Penn Johnson: Well, I've been listening closely.

755
01:19:12.430 --> 01:19:18.330
Penn Johnson: To what the jungle has to share, and it's a soft reminder to be.

756
01:19:19.010 --> 01:19:24.260
Penn Johnson: Even better in every way, and I just wanted to tell you…

757
01:19:25.920 --> 01:19:32.350
Penn Johnson: You're doing everything that your ancestors prayed for.

758
01:19:32.700 --> 01:19:38.279
Penn Johnson: They're up there smiling, and it's always been you.

759
01:19:42.510 --> 01:19:44.509
Dwight: That is beautiful. What a gift.

760
01:19:44.510 --> 01:19:46.059
Maddox: What a gift.

761
01:19:46.220 --> 01:19:50.770
Maddox: Very meaningful. That just very warm, fuzzy feeling.

762
01:19:51.360 --> 01:19:53.840
Maddox: Thank you. Thank you for sharing that, Ben.

763
01:19:53.840 --> 01:19:54.940
Penn Johnson: Yeah, of course.

764
01:19:55.390 --> 01:20:02.049
Maddox: I I think for some reason or the microphone picked up your voice really well, but didn't pick up the guitar very well.

765
01:20:02.050 --> 01:20:04.139
Penn Johnson: Yeah, I was wondering if it might do that.

766
01:20:04.300 --> 01:20:08.639
Penn Johnson: I can, I can send you another version of it that you can put on there if you want.

767
01:20:09.370 --> 01:20:17.710
Penn Johnson: Yeah. On the… It's… it can be strange with the, the… The settings on… on here.

768
01:20:18.240 --> 01:20:18.800
Dwight: Yeah.

769
01:20:19.160 --> 01:20:26.050
Maddox: Yeah, we can figure that out. Just a link that'll take them to a Dropbox space where the recording lives or something.

770
01:20:26.050 --> 01:20:28.530
Penn Johnson: Or even just, like, add it after.

771
01:20:30.920 --> 01:20:31.250
Maddox: Oh.

772
01:20:31.250 --> 01:20:33.039
Penn Johnson: like, trail out.

773
01:20:33.190 --> 01:20:35.479
Maddox: Yeah, that's a thought. Okay.

774
01:20:36.130 --> 01:20:45.300
Maddox: Alright, well… Ben, this has been amazing. Thank you so much for honoring us with your story, your life.

775
01:20:45.580 --> 01:20:46.190
Penn Johnson: Hmm.

776
01:20:46.190 --> 01:20:47.780
Maddox: It's been very interesting.

777
01:20:48.380 --> 01:20:52.890
Penn Johnson: Yeah, thanks for having me, really grateful, and yeah, giving thanks for…

778
01:20:53.610 --> 01:20:57.970
Penn Johnson: All the people out there listening to this, praying for you, praying for

779
01:20:58.150 --> 01:21:03.540
Penn Johnson: All the ways that your journey has been impacted by these words from all of us and

780
01:21:04.120 --> 01:21:09.029
Penn Johnson: continue to keep creating and stop consuming so much. Love you guys. Aloha.

781
01:21:10.350 --> 01:21:11.680
Dwight: Amen. Aloha.